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Pilot shortage threatens industry

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The looming shortage of pilots and technicians in [Asia] is hampering the burgeoning civil aviation industry in Asia-Pacific that could account for nearly half of global air travel in the next two decades. As in other parts of the world, there are already insufficient aviation personnel in the region to support airline fleet modernisation and a surge in air travel demand. (www.bangkokpost.com) 기타...

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raptor22ms
I love how this article only focuses on China and the Pacific Islands. There will also be a demand for pilots stateside due to the turnover of retirement. Also full heartedly agree with Reuben and Robert we fly because we love it. Now if only we could get more kids into quaility flight schools......
BlutiG
Me too! I'd sure as hell go over if a good carrier like CX, NH, or SQ would take me on...
rick737
Why should anyone want to become a professional pilot. To perform the duties a pilot must first be treated like a criminal in front of his passengers by a TSA agent that only a year earlier was flipping burgers. Then, at the whim of a computer, the pilot must pee in a cup to prove his or her inosence from a mulitude of sins. Of course, probable cause is waved. A passenger by can say the pilot smells of alcohol, and be forced to take a breathalyzer test. A many companies, management constantly attempts to force the pilot to perform duties that unsafe, while nickle/diming them into substandard compensation
Sounds like a glamorous career choice to me.

By the way, remove the word pilot at any point in this statement and insert your choice of job title to see is anyone else has to suffer the same indignities to earn a living.

Ya think, we may see a continued shortage of pilots when one considers the above described working conditions
reuben
Richard, have you ever heard of corporate aviation? Just because you want to fly planes for a living doesn't mean that you have to be an airline pilot. STFU
BoeingFan59
You give pilots a bad rap Richard. Reuben pretty much pointed it out to ya.
kb9uwu
richard, quit whining... you reek of entitlement
rick737
Mat Comerford, If you knew me, you'd know how wrong that statement is. I flew aircraft for a living for 42 years. I've had good jobs and great jobs. Only a few problems come from the employer. It's the constant assault of our federal government over-regulating our every move. The TSA has made the job of flying an airliner a demeaning experience, by treating pilots like criminals. Example: I can't carry a leathermans tool in my flight bag, but a 5 pound crash axe is strapped to the wall of my cockpit. Which item is more lethal? I've had female(well kinda) TSA thugs feel up my female F/O to the point of bringing her to tears. Then I have to deal with an F/O that feels like she's been raped. I've seen TSA agents hold up a flight attendent's personal clothing items for the whole world to see. I've had my wallet searched, for what I don't know.

Now, put up with that indignity for $18,000.00 per year. That's starting pay at many regionals. Long term, the pay is good, but if the pilot get's stuck at a slow growth company, it can be a long road to the big bucks. Pay those student loans back on that.

Reubin, Corporate aviation is a viable alternative to airline flying. But, there's is no job protection. If a new chairman wants to raise the stock price or appear to be taking the bull by the horns he can sell the sky yacht to raise cash. Now the pilots looking for a new job at the bottom of the seniority list. Luckily, there are many that are far more stable, but not all.

All that said, I have no regrets that I choose aviation for a career. The purpose of my statements are to meerly point out the difficulties a new pilots will face. It will be up to them to make it a better place.
erau2011
Richard, if pissing in a cup and going through security means getting payed to do something I have a passion for, then so be it. As Mr. Reuben Smith said, "STFU."
BMWKEN
BMWKEN 0
"I fly cause I like the HIGH" I'm with Richard.....Please don't forget to V O T E!! D.C. needs an enema!
rick737
Hey Tim Smith, please explain to everyone how someone bumping my junk is for my protection. Do you for a second think a pilot needs a explosive Depends to commit a terrorist act. When the door to the cockpit is closed the pilot has the same weapon the Islamist terrorist used to kill 3000 people. Once you're at the controls, no box cutters are required.
jhakunti
Jack and Tim, STFU. Ain't no pilot here complained about TSA. only the failed pilot Richard Weiss who is making excuses so he can get over the fact that he failed at becoming a professional pilot. PART 121 does not include all of aviation. There are plenty of Part 91/135 pilots who are plenty happy with their great pay, and excellent quality of life.

Afterall, that's were a pilot can still make 6 figures and fly less than half the days in a month.
bovineone
Try to keep the discussions friendly, folks :)
canuck44
canuck44 0
You know, folks, Richard makes very good points and really does not deserve the have posting suggesting that 42 years of sitting up front has earned him the right to be bombarded with "STFU", normally seen at union rallies and school yards not on an interest blog.

I am a pediatric subspecialty surgeon with 40 years of operating on kids under my belt. I feel exactly the same about all the new clipboards and suits that know better than me how to treat kids only to be reimbursed at less than my cost of providing the service. I feel exactly like Richard toward them as he does with the TSA...why are these sixth grade graduates telling me how and to whom I can provide care. Richard has a surgeon's personality...he wants to do what is right for his charges (female FO and passengers) and he is impeded by the same group of assholes that mandate Braille be installed on drive through ATMs.

I want this type of man in the front seat just as I hope my patients' parents want someone like me doing their child's surgery, not some ObamaCare wimp. We are not reckless...just totally intolerant of incompetents impeding the delivery of quality service.
thenamesIAN
AMEN TO RICHARD.
rick737
Thank you Dr. Donaldson. Well said
rick737
What we have here is many examples of starry eyed wannabes that can't handle the truth.
erau2011
Just what some of us determined individuals needed... An elder pilot with a failed dream calling those who have a desire to do something or get somewhere "starry eyed wannabes." You, sir, are one in a few... Thanks for those uplifting words of wisdom (sarcasm)
JD345
JD345 0
Here's a solution if you hate your job... WALK AWAY. I get so tired of hearing pilots whine and complain about how miserable they are... QUIT, then. I work with a guy who did just that... he put his money where his mouth was and went and drove a metro mobility van instead.

I sure hope I never become so much of a malcontent with MY job that I have to take out my frustrations with my own choices on people that want to do my job with a burning passion.
rick737
Wesley, a dose of reality is sometimes difficult to swallow. So, I'll add the spoonful of sugar to make the medicine go down. After many years of a successful and profitable career, I watched a few Washington bureaucrats make the job more distasteful than it had to be. Rather than realize the pilots were the first line of defense in the air war on terrorism, they put us in line with rest of the usual suspects. Rather than enlist us in the fight that we were expected take part in, we were treated like criminals that had to prove innocense...everyday. It makes absolutely no sense to demand loyality to a cause and, at the same time, treat pilots with contempt.

All that said I have no regrets for choosing to begin a flying career in 1966. It will be up to the pilots beginning their careers in 2011 to demand the respect the profession deserves. If you want to be a sheaple, God help you, and your passengers.
jasscarff
I find this endless attack on government regulation tedious to say the least. Regulators need to be regulated. Bureaucracy is inevitably obnoxious. So what's new? Do some of you really want aviation with no regulation? That's insane.
CaptStephanC
Richard Weiss........WELL SAID........Thank you very much...........You are 100% absolutely correct..........I actually had a TSA agent at KORL threaten me with a lawsuit saying that I "touched her", and it "ABSOLUTELY DID NOT HAPPEN"!!!!!!!!..........If it were not for ALPA legal, I would have lost my job (I ACTUALLY ENDED UP OUT OF WORK FOR 8 MONTHS).........Thirty years with PSA (Pacific Southwest Airlines), and USAir, and the B/S I went through during 5 years flying Charter after that, were just absolutely ASSINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!..........GUESS WHO WON????????????????........sce
rick737
To James Scarff. Where in any of my statements did I say we should turn our current system over by eliminating regulation? If we don't have standards to guide us, we have chaos.

Here's an example of over regulation. During a ramp inspection of my B737, air carrier inspector dicovered a missing decal on the co-pilot's external push-pull handle for the sliding window on the outside of the aircraft. The handle had the word "push" embedded in the handle. The ACI proudly announced that our aircraft was grounded until that sticker could be replaced. I calmly asked the ACI if he was from the same FAA that had just issued a airworthiness directive allowing the airlines ONE YEAR to replace a diode in the underwing refueling panel that had caught fire on a few aircraft. I was lot more worried about that fuel panel diode than I was about a push/pull decal, but our inspector wasn't. How STUPID is that ACI. He could have easily pointed out the sticker and reminded me to have it replaced at the next maintenence station, but he couldn't have gone back to the office and bragged about grounding an airliner. That is called too much power in the hands of low level beaucrats.

To conclude, yes, regulation is necessary and proper, but using the regs to impede the flow of commerce isn't either.
JD345
JD345 0
If regulations are written by someone who's actually qualified to judge what needs regulating and how much, that's all well and good... but the problems begin when accountants and lawyers start making regulations for engineers on paper.
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
Richard Weiss: As a 38 yr. pilot (Pan Am) who went to work for Korean Air after Pan Am shutdown I agree with your viewpoint. The pilots themselves are at fault for the mistreatment however. I remember in the fifties when all airline pilots shut the airlines down for a 5 day period. The Cowards in government couldn't do enough for them and for awhile a pilot was treated with respect. I'm retired now but I would have just called the chief pilot's office and explained to him that I wanted the Pan Am lawyers to explain to me why I must give up my right to due process to fly their airplane for them. I would have been out of a job but it would have been great fun! For all the young bucks out there that think they'll do ANYTHING for a flying job just remember; When they talk about raising taxes on millionaires YOU will be the one targeted. The millionaires are the ones who give the politicians the money to run on, if you think they are going to tax them your not smart enough to be a pilot! Try putting up with the B.S. and having 50-60% of your money stolen from you and see how gung-ho your are after sitting up in a cockpit for 3 nights in a row. The glamour kinda loses its' glow after 25 years of that kind of crap!
rick737
Gene, I rode the jumpseat many times on Pan Am and can honestly say tears were in eyes the day it was shut down. What a great operation, with ton of professionals. The new guys coming up have been taught from day one to sit down, shut up, let the plane do the flying and do it under conditions that are demeaning to free people. I've written, in various threads on Flightaware, about the lack of respect a pilot must be willing to endure to practice his profession. If these new guys are willing to subject themselves to TSA harrassment,and FAA random pee tests without probable cause, just to earn a shrinking living they will get exactly what they deserve.
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
richard: I'm sure we were glad to have your company in the cockpit. Where did you fly out of? I might have been the Capt. if it was a 747. I should have given the whole story on my flying life--I was in the last three classes of Aviation Cadets and many of the "hot shots" posting on this site would not have completed that course of instruction. I flew in Nam when it was still called indonesia (protecting some of the rubber plantations). Later I was recalled and flew F-105s for 16 mos. That was in '72 and 73. Did a rescue operation in Angola when the FLN (that lovely group of "agricultural reformers" who ran around with AK-47s "enforcing the law" and killing about 500k people in the process. We hauled out 2451 Masa Verdy Islanders to Ghana where another crew, Pan AM also, flew them on to Brazil where they were resettled. We were flying a 707 (only 1200 hours on the aircraft) so you can figure out the loads. Many were children and they rode on their parents laps. Those "Celebrated" (by our Congress and Acamedia) reformers shot up the airplane so bad over the ten day period that the United Nations paid Pan Am for the aircraft and it was flowen to Arizona and junked. So I figure I have paid my dues just like thousands of others. At this point if I want to complain about a overbearing government and their paid thugs I will and to hell with the "wet behind the ears" youngsters who have been so indocrinated into socialism/communisum that they think they have the right to question their elders! Just "learning the rules" and how to hook up an autopilot doesn't give them too many "rights" as far as I am concerned!
rick737
Did the Air Berlin thing in the 80's. I rode the 727 shuttle to FRA for the trip to JFK on the 747. I was treated to many first class seats. The entire crew always made me feel like a paying passenger. Flew hueys in the delta in '68. Another tour on the DMZ in Korea, in '70-71. The sense of entitlement started with a lot of the younger pilots in the 90's. As soon as they showed up on the property, it was theirs to control. If they keep up the trend, the guys who made airline flying a great job will have all their gains erased.
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
Unfortunately Richard, I'm afraid you are right. The "golden age" of being a pilot was when the airlines were still flying props and the loss of an engine on takeoff was a real test! Jets are fast, comfortable, well powered, and everything we all wanted when we were kids but they also made airline flying just another big business where the pilot never saw the vp or pres. during his whole carreer so the operational side of the business got lost in "big deals" and large loans. It was still a great life, well most of it anyway, and I'm glad I had my shot at it.
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
For what it's worth; pardon me for my mistake 9 days ago, I meant to say Indochina not Indonesia. Our little town has a "community college" and I run into a lot of the kids from there (they work in a lot of the stores) and they are being indocronated into socialist thinking. Of course we have disagreements and I tell them to go to the library and get a world atlas that has the "CIA" pages in it. Note that literally every country that is listed as socialist (politically) has 20% to 40% of the population living below the STARVATION level! I tell them to try to figure out why that is!
rick737
It started in kindergarten for most of the kids. The leftist teachers' union make these kids believe that anyone with more than them is evil, and deserves to be taxed to poordom. Listen to the idiots marching on Wall Street complain about having to pay back student loans. The evil bankers must have held them at gunpoint to get them to sign loan papers. Entitlement mentality at its finest. They actually feel entitled to everyone elses wealth. Unless that mold is broken, we are doomed as a republic.
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
richard: We have been doomed since Johnson's "great society". The huge amount of wealth created while America was still a truly free country (read-government feared the people)has slowly been bled off by theives, thugs, and fools who seem to get re-elected time after time. At this point there are so many more "takers" than "producers" I fear for the Country. Some of the fault lies with the public, we are the ones who have allowed the government to forget we are a Republic. We could start rectifying the situation with a mass arrest and trial of the "occupy" crowd with a loss of Citizenship and deportation to Afrcia! When there they would complete the other half of their education--that's where you actually have to face the world and DO something! As it is we have gone through the country's wealth with no return on the investment!
rick737
In 1964 the poverty rate in the USA was about 10%. After nearly 50 years and trillions of dollars spent, we have a poverty rate that has remains unchanged at about 10%. The diffence is our poor have big screen tv, airconditioning and a car. Our poor live better than 70% of the world's population. It makes it easy to draw the conclusion that we will always have a group of people that will have less than others, and complain about it. If the same energy was used to make a living, the poverty rate would drop to 5%. Those are the truely disadvantaged that need the rest of us to lift the up.
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
Richard: I remimber when I was a kid the County in Kansas where I lived at the time had something called the "county farm". It was a place where the people who couldn't or wouldn't take care of themselves were sent for a place to live and three squares a day. This place would be a working farm and the people living there were,for the most part, self sufficient. Doctors would go visit the farm a couple of times a year to check on cronic health problems or accidents. My Grandfather was a circuit court judge and he thought that was the most humane, thoughful, and best way to care for welfare clients. They even held school 3 days a week (after dinner) to better qualify a person to go back into the world and fend for themselves. The system worked very well until the lawyers thought they could "make it better" (read, steal money from the system). The farms were sold and the lawyers bought them and became rich farming and paying the "poor folks" the smallest wages they could get by with. As my Grandfatehr often said "I never saw a lawyer that made anything better!". So it goes with most "good intentions" when the "good intentions" meet up with lawyers!
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
starting a new thread so we will have room to write. Back to the pilot shortage. I remember, in the early seventies, United would hire someone fresh out of college with zero time and put them into a training class with flight safety or some other good flight school and bring them up to commercial w/insturment. It seemd to work well for awhile then they got offers from other airlines or businesses and they drifted away. The young fellows we have read in this block are right about the need to have "the burn" to be an airline pilot. Many "think" they would love to be an airline pilot but a few checks and several night flights later (and all the crap that goes with a job that others are jealous of) and the "burn" fades unless one is born to fly the big ones. I thank God I was allowed to do so!
rick737
Here's my favorite. With about 5000 hours and 2 type ratings, I applied to American Airlines. I was given an interview, with a non-pilot HR type that lasted about 3 minutes. A letter followed a few weeks later that said I was not qualified. Fast forward about 6 months. I was dropping off a Sabreliner at Perryville Missouri for extended maintenance. A young lady that worked for Rockwell, was assigned to give us a ride to STL in a Cessna 421. As we progressed toward STL, I asked her if she was getting any jet time in her capacity at Rockwell. See told me she had been a few test flights and had accumulated 7 hours in the Sabre. But, she really didn't care because she waiting on a class date from American. Her 700 hours in a C150 and 100 hours in a C421 trumped my military training at American. Or then again, maybe it was the plumbing.
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
After the Air Force I ran into the same thing when interviewing with United and TWA. I let myself get discouraged and went to crop dusting (actually spraying, I had done some while in the Air Force during days off, had to sneak around to do it but it paid good!) Anyway, I flew crop work in summer and pipeline patrol in the winter. Also went to school and finished my college (biochemistry). While in my last year, I was doing instructing, and an old student came in and said "you should talk to Pan Am, they are looking for high mach time guys and they would probably be happy to have you." I did, two weeks later I went to New York and one week later got a letter of acceptance. Funny thing, after getting that letter I got calls and letters from every airline that had turned me down 2-3 years earlier! Never have I gotten so much pleasure in writing letters of NO THANKS! As is was I would have made a lot more money with almost any one of the others but stuck with Pan Am because they stuck with me!
clipper1
Gene Ray 0
Richard: my e-mail is clipper1@centurytel.net drop me a line.
Feathered_Prop
We fly because we love to fly... not because the job is glamorous or because the pay is worth it. It's worth it to us to put up with the TSA and all the other blunders just so we can be in the air. I'm not saying that some of what you say isn't true... but I am saying that the pitfalls far surpass the rewards for us.
Feathered_Prop
I mistyped... rewards far surpass the pitfalls.
skyfly12
Dont have to worry about there being a shortage of jobs for when i get a license. and am living in china even better!!!
erau2011
Im just a student pilot. Sign me up!
jhakunti
The positives of aviation far outweigh the negatives.

I am still in training, although I haven't flown since December last year. If it were more affordable to train, more people who would otherwise be pilots would have made it already, including me.

Being a pilot is not for someone who "just fell into it". Or doesn't know they want to be a pilot. Simply because it takes dedication and perseverance. Without those, one will only see the negatives and quit. The negatives are big, but the positives are greater. To be able to fly for a living is a dream. To get paid to do what you dream about doing all night and day every night and day is the only way to live. I play flight sim all the time, and at my old job, I used to sneak to the neighboring flight schools FTD every night, Saturday and Sunday when they were closed. IT takes that kind of mentality.
canuck44
canuck44 0
For all those salivating to catch on with Cathay or Singapore, they need to know the history of those Asian companies' employment policies ...unspoken but there. In most of these airlines they carry expats only as long as they have to do so until they replace them with nationals who tend to be cheaper and much more compliant.
JD345
JD345 0
Richard... take the word pilot out and you just about described MY job. It gets tiring when too-cool-for-school pilots think they're the only ones who ever have to deal with loads of B.S. at work.
chicoaggie
I agree with Jack. I had to take a drug test for my career and have random drug tests throughout. I don't have to get frisked by TSA before I start work, but cry me a river, it's for your own protection anyways. I would gladly trade my desk job for an airline career...and I plan to in a few months.

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