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Airforce Blaming Pilot in Fatal Crash of F-22

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Lack of oxygen contributed to accident (www.avweb.com) 기타...

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aldo747
To Captain Jeffrey Haney, I don't blame you.
Rest in Peace and with Honor.
preacher1
Amen!!!!!
jhakunti
I have seen these things flying around at night. It's a very dim light that flies so fast that it isn't an airliner, but can't be a ufo because of how close to the city I live and frequency of sightings. I did not know then, but now I know that it could very well be fighter jets whizing by. Pretty cool.

RIP to the pilot. This is not the pilot's fault. If the article is right, and oxygen was cutoff to the pilot, it is the manufacturer's fault for the oxygen system failure. Second it is a policy issue that a pilot can jump into the cockpit with unfamiliar gear. But I'm not there. I just don't think the pilot should be blamed, and if so only with extreme caution and certainty. For this guy is no longer here to defend himself.
KW10001
KW10001 0
Goodness, what a myriad of experts we have here.
onceastudentpilot
i know; aren't we great..lol
preacher1
You got any better thoughts, smart ass
KW10001
KW10001 0
None that your brain would be able to wrap itself around.
preacher1
Best thing I can tell you, if you don't like it, stay out of it. As it is a free country, however, you are entitled to express your opinion. Seems to me that way back yonder I fought for you to have that right. I apologize for attempting to infringe upon it.
onceastudentpilot
thank you for your service....merry christmas
KW10001
KW10001 0
I forgive you.
preacher1
Tks, and Merry Christmas
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 0
If you two keep fighting, you're not going to get any Christmas pudding...
preacher1
Merry Christmas, THRUSTT.lol
jeffbee
Definitely NOT the pilot's fault - Looks like the Miltary are trying to save themselves many dollars in compensation.
siriusloon
If you actually knew anything, then you'd know that the pilot's life insurance pays out exactly the same regardless of whether this was pilot error or not. Sorry that dosn't fit with your conspiracy theory mentality, but it's a fact.
Pigweed298
I bet the contractor's executives didn't miss any of their annual bonuses while they were designing and building this jet.
siriusloon
I realize this is hard to grasp, but sometimes pilot error really is the cause. Just as it's wrong to just blame the pilot when it's not his fault, it's also wrong to assume that a finding of pilot error is always false. Pilots are very well-trained how to react when there's a problem with their oxygen system and they're equally well-trained to recognize the symptoms of hypoxia. I know, because I've been through chamber training three times and I've had seat checks and other training for my flights in the following types: A-7K, TA-4K, F-16B, F-4D, CF-5D, CT-114, OA-37B, CT-133 (five times), CT-4B, and others. When you have problems with the oxygen system, you activate your emergency bottle and you descend below 10,000 feet. All fighter pilots are trained thoroughly in this. There were certainly contributing factors (cold-weather gear, NVGs, etc), but pilots aren't just along for the ride and when they screw up, such as rolling past inverted into a high-speed vertical dive, then the accident report is going to say so. And it did.

As for the location of the activation of the emergency bottle, nothing is located at random. The ergonomics of what is where in the cockpit is carefully studied and, in the case of the F-22, there was more pilot input than just about any other fighter ever built. Many fighter pilots go through their entire career without ever needing to activate the emergency supply, so it's not going to be placed where things more important in every flight need to be.

There's a balance to be achieved, despite what the armchair accident investigators and amateur aerospace engineers in here "know" about this accident. If some of you guys are so smart, why aren't you making millions as a consultant to the air force or Lockheed Martin? Your expertise is being wasted on here. You should serve your country with your skills and knowledge...although that would require that you take responsibility for your accusations and claims instead of posting uninformed assumptions where you'll never be held accountable for them, no matter how ridiculous they may be.

Go ahead and flame me for saying that, but the flames will only come from the armchair experts who have had their cover blown. I wasn't referring to people who made thoughtful posts, but the rest of the wannabes and know-it-alls aren't going to like being busted and flames from them will be as meaningful as their "expert" analysis and conclusions. Happy holidays. :-)
Piratemed
What was that expression the fly guies in WWII had ..."SNAFU" ... typical military BS and CTA for a problem that the bird has had from the get go ... they grounded them for a "fix" ... then just a week or so ago we hear another one experienced the same issue .... AGAIN ! ... also let's stop to remember the family of this fallen flyer ... who because of this report will be left out in the cold ...
jcr31047
WOW, Maybe if we spend. oh lets say $350,000,000 per copy instead of the reported $147,000,000 per copy we can get some decent engineering!!! Geeeze. That pilot was doomed from the start. R.I.P.
onceastudentpilot
if the report is true that the jet was descending at 57,800 fpm should of it disentegrated...Even it the jet did stay intact and was descending at that rate he would have only had 45 secs to respond to anything...I personally think the report is rubbish and he died from the jets initial descent before the impact.
chalet
chalet 0
And Lockheed, the main F-22 and F-35 contractor is quite happy to see that the cost of these beasts went up faster than Mach 2 (and the taxpayers have to keep of feeding the Defense Industry). By the way SOD Leon Penetta is now fighting like mad to keep all these and other multi-billion UNNECESSARY projects going in spite that each one of the living Americans including childreN who were born last night owe $ 46,000 which is theeir share of the National Debt. Merry Xmas.
siriusloon
Unfortunately for your rant, these are firm-fixed-price contracts, which means the contractor pays for overruns. The last thing Lockheed Martin wants is for the cost to go up because they pay money rather than get paid for that extra cost. Sorry to have some facts interfere with your rant, but I'm sure that won't stop you repeating it at every opportunity, will it?
preacher1
I think once in production they are fixed price. I am pretty sure what he is referring to is the still open ended R&D contract on the F35. You are correct on the life insurance $ BUT, if it's blamed on pilot error it either totally negates or at least makes it much harder for a lawsuit against the mfg.I don't know Lucas Worthen but he put some pretty direct things in a comment above 2 days ago. I asked where that came from or how he knew and have received no direct answer.
BluegrassFlyer
I think its fair to say that certain contractors have a monopoly in the defense industry and because the number of contractors are dwindling due to mergers and acquisitions, there is no competition to spur the desire to build potent, cost effective weapon systems. it can be said that LM, and others now run the DoD and not the Government.
preacher1
Amen, well said!!!!!!!!!!
zennermd
zennermd 0
I hear that P-47's had a problem where the pilot could accidently shut off the engine if he moved his arm wrong. A pilot moved it and got chewed out by his commanding officer. This situation is a little less severe, but it looks like this kind of thing is still happening.
siriusloon
You "heard" that? Well, it must be true then. And of course, anything that happened in a WWII radial-engined aircraft is directly applicable to a 5th-generation jet fighter, right? After all, they both have pilots, so of course it's all the same.

Geezuz, they let you people vote and reproduce.
onceastudentpilot
probably bumped the mixture....I had a pitts abort a take-off while I was on short-final back when I actually got to fly.....no harm I just buzzed him as he turned off the runway..lol
ibock
Ian Bock 0
Fatal design flaw... Let's blame the pilot!
atlantisjet
Agree. From a flight surgeon perspective, the activation of the secondary oxygen system sucks. Why is the lever so low positioned preventing the pilot to reach it when outfitted with special garment and donning night vision goggles? I think the experts should look closer to this detail or we´ll be facing more losses in the future.
preacher1
I wonder what the "specific conditions" are in which the plane will cut off the oxygen supply to the pilot. I can't imagine why that would even be allowed to happen in the first place. Unless on a target run or takeoff/landing, these planes are well up there most of the time and there should be no legitimate reason that a pilot should be without oxygen, and now get the blame for this, besides dying.
rayzeeman
Maybe a fire in the cockpit would be one reason to cut off oxygen? Though there is no mention of that here. As far as his "inadvertent control inputs," I would think it's very possible he was hypoxic; how much time do you have when you lose oxygen at 38,000 feet? I'm also wondering why he was wearing bulky winter gear - - is this common in fighter ops?
ibock
Ian Bock 0
I wonder if the "inadvertent control inputs" were from the pilot trying to activate the secondary O2?
BluegrassFlyer
The Raptor may be heralded with its stealth capability and first-look, first-kill abilities, and it can do some amazing things but so did the Tomcat, and even to an extent the SuperHornet (which killed the Raptor in a simulated dogfight), for a fraction of the cost. The Raptor is a very expensive hunk of junk and by the way things are going so is the F-35. In the end the pilot is viewed as collateral damage by the powers-that-be.
LucasWorthen
The engines were replaced a week before the crash, there was a leak in the bleed air system which triggered the shutdown of 5 systems including the oxygen system and ECS. A wedge block was installed incorrectly next to the ring that activates the emergency oxygen system and the ring itself was hard to reach from the pilots seat. The blame is all put on the pilot, there are underlying design flaws and maintenance problems. It doesn't do the pilot justice in all the articles to say "pilot error", that's wrong. There were multiple problems with the aircraft.
preacher1
Lucas: if all this is known, where did PILOT ERROR come into all this, other than he was probably so hypoxic he bumped some controls trying to reach the EO. Oh yeah, he's dead and can't defend himself. That's right. 'scuse me
LucasWorthen
My point exactly.

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