Back to Squawk list
  • 39

Airbus and Dassault Pushes for Single-Pilot Operations Amidst Rising Automation

Submitted
PARIS — As technology evolves, plane manufacturers like Airbus and Dassault in Europe are championing the concept of planes being flown with a single pilot during most of a long-haul journey. This idea has not yet received widespread endorsement from their airline clientele. However, it's causing a stir among pilot unions, which argue that having less than two pilots onboard is a perilous venture. (www.airlinerwatch.com) More...

Sort type: [Top] [Newest]


SeanAwning
Sean Awning 27
Hold their annual board and shareholder meetings on single-pilot aircraft. Give it a few years to prove the concept. Then come back and make a solid proposal.
srobak
srobak 2
Most companies have policies preventing too many key personnel from traveling together.
SeanAwning
Sean Awning 1
So they secretly fantasize Putler's after theM/ I can understand POTUS and VPOTUS not traveling together. But for the rest, if they're not willing to bet their lives on a technology, they have no business gambling with our lives.
howardkoor
Howard Koor 1
Good idea.
CarlT120
Carlyle Swofford 1
I agree.
JohnTuthill
JohnTuthill 17
Let's poll the Pax, I suspect many (me included) would not feel safe on a single pilot commercial flight
jeffinsydney
jeff slack 34
Bottom line Corporate greed over safety; short and sweet.
Even this pig does not wear or pretend to wear lipstick...............

[This poster has been suspended.]

claytonvandiver
Clayton Vandiver 4
Does anyone honestly believe that when costs in business are saved - those savings automatically get delivered to the consumer? Ever? Absolutely not. That is not how business works folks. If there are any savings to be made in operating a business the savings automatically go into the bottom line, the stockholders, and the bonuses for the executives who then buy another yacht. The consumer continues to pay exactly what the consumer is willing to pay and the market to bear.
MikeMohle
Mike Mohle 2
I'll pay a little extra for pilots, pilot wages are a fraction of the operating cost of an airliner.
Nooge
Nooge 0
My lord, neomarxist faculty lounges

My lord !!! a true Connedservative
kevinkeswick
Kevin Keswick 45
At least once a week I read about an in-flight pilot incapacitation sometimes even resulting in death. I would never get on a plane with just one pilot. Are these people nuts?
SeanAwning
Sean Awning 31
Yes. However, they don't envision a single pilot alone. They envision either a human on the ground taking over and running the aircraft as a drone, or having an AI aboard the plane who can "decide" like a very experienced four-striper. Since we're doing so very well with driverless cars, extend our current state of the art to the far more complex task of flying, and it's obvious Airbus and Dassault are living in a fantasy world. They'd be better off in the near term, investing money in pilot training.
k1121j
k1121j 25
No thank you to the drone thing. That's all i need is a hacker taking over my plane while in flight.
jmilleratp
jmilleratp 11
That's one BIG drone!
srobak
srobak 6
No thanks on the commercial airliner sized drone, and hell naw on the AI thing.
musephoto
Geoff Rowe 10
Gees, Imagine a 9/11 scenario happening every week!
ColinSeftel
Colin Seftel 4
Actually I'm thinking that a remote pilot could have taken over control of the 911 flights from the hijackers.
skyminister
skyminister 5
That doesn't seem feasible. What if the Hijackers know how to override the remote access or worse yet, as part a bigger plan, jam communications that enable remote flying.
harriergnawing0c
Stef Lar 2
How expensive do you think signal jammers are?
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 1
Not very. I can probably make one if I felt inclined too but I have no reason to do so.
gacoon
gacoon 3
Hope their internet works better than mine
jalforhz
Manny Hart 1
" or having an AI aboard the plane who can "decide" like a very experienced four-striper."
No thanks. Been aggravating myself for 4 weeks over a banking issue caused when Supposedly competent programmers decided to improve the statement format. It's bad enough enough when a programmer screws up a non-lethal project - but controlling an aircraft??? AI is nowhere near there now.
ssobol
Stefan Sobol 3
German Wings flight was intentionally crashed by one of the pilots of a two man crew. Potentially, the EgyptAir 767 crash was intentional action by a crew member. There are other examples. AF447 crashed even with a cockpit full of pilots. More planes crash by intentional/inappropriate/incorrect crew action than by potential pilot incapacitation.
srobak
srobak 3
all that does is show that while enough additional crew are stepping up in instances of incapacitation - not enough have been in times of intentional instances.
Overtoom
Paul Overtoom 14
It is undoubtedly a great way to help reduce air travel. Speaking for myself: I will never be found aboard a complex aircraft that is single-pilot flown.
mgsegal
Mark Segal 13
What happens if the single pilot aborad an Airbus 340 half way across the Atlantic suffers a fatal heart attack? What system continues to fly this plane and land it safely at the nearest accommodating airport?
madrockradio
James Cross 1
Highly doubt they'll ever add this to the A340. I love those birds but they're old, some even still use steam gauges for backup attitude indicators.
druck13
druck13 4
Hey! I worked on the A330/340 software in the mid 90's, it wasn't that long ago...

[Remembers the type of processors, comms protocols, and the maturity of the software development process]

...OK, I see your point!
druck13
druck13 9
Oh, and as both an aviation software engineer, and a private pilot myself, there is no way I am trusting my life to a single pilot backed up by automation on a commercial airliner.

Two pilots, or I walk.

[This poster has been suspended.]

druck13
druck13 2
I was thinking more of walking off the plane and getting a differrent flight!
Nooge
Nooge 0
Walking is very good for you but impractical to make that testimony in Fulton County tomorrow afternoon.

Tiny goes by Air Farce One
claytonvandiver
Clayton Vandiver 2
I genuinely begin to think anyone in favor of one or no commercial pilot operation are probably under 30-35 years of age and anyone who believes that is not such a good idea is probably over 35. I base my theory according to the comments about tech, steam gauges (which have proven to work perfectly well in any aircraft as they have for far longer than glass cockpits have existed), and the fallacy that if you have electricity it is better to use it than any other method of accomplishing the task - until electricity fails and those old timers are still out there flying while the young folk are trying to figure out how to shift gears without automatic transmissions, read without knowing cursive, and fly without the screen that just went dark and took every single instrument with it.

[This poster has been suspended.]

TimDyck
Tim Dyck 2
Nothing wrong with drawing your own water. The pump is good exercise…unless you’re drawing water for 200 head of cattle in which case the electric pump is mighty handy.

[This poster has been suspended.]

claytonvandiver
Clayton Vandiver 2
Two words: Boeing Max.
jalforhz
Manny Hart 1
"but it's right up there." Nowhere near.
ZombieSazza
Sorcha MacLennan 10
Well it’ll definitely reduce passenger numbers and flights, because most of us would avoid the hell out of a single pilot flight.
theaustenite
Mootaz Elnozahy 9
When will the greed stop? When will overabundance be enough?
Fabreps
Jim McDiarmid -3
Ask Joe and Hunter
Nooge
Nooge 0
Jim bro... the Bye Don Derangement Syndrome reveal is not very flattering

Hate to tell you it is going to be a tough couple of years for you and inmate number P01135809 aka s as"Tiny"by Ms Daniels

[This poster has been suspended.]

Nooge
Nooge -1
Prisoner P01135809 Lover Glover trying like heck to overlook facts


"Former White House chief of staff tells friends that Trump ‘is the most flawed person’ he’s ever met"


Former White House chief of staff, retired Marine Gen. John Kelly, has told friends that President Donald Trump “is the most flawed person” he’s ever known.

“The depths of his dishonesty is just astounding to me. The dishonesty, the transactional nature of every relationship, though it’s more pathetic than anything else. He is the most flawed person I have ever met in my life,” the retired Marine general has told friends



I am more concerned about conn servatives like you who would vote for him again and I would be more concerned if he was not imprisoned
robertsonfox
Stuart Robertson-Fox 8
One aspect that has not been mentioned but will over rule most else is insurance. Most underwriters that I have met won't touch a single pilot public transport aircraft with a barge pole and their increased premiums, assuming you could get enough underwriters to take the risk, will very soon dwarf the cost of the second pilot. The possibility of sophisticated Hi jackers taking over a ground control station and leading fully laden aircraft into a twin towers situation must also be considered.
ypsharma45
Yadunandan Sharma 7
It is imperative the any commercial aircraft be equipped with two pilots regards of the degree of automation because in the unlikely event of one pilot going air sick or gets incapacitated, the other pilot can land the plane safely on land / sea thus saving lives of passengers as well as saving the aircraft from heavy losses.

[This poster has been suspended.]

RWSlater
Ron Slater 6
Automation is great, however there still needs to be a human to punch the buttons, and if the ONE pilot keels over from a heart attack, who will push the buttons? One pilot ops for airliners will never happen IMHO
ballroomdelta
BERRI Burroughs 2
I’ll really miss George Kennedy, but Hoiiywood will have new material for 3 or 4 more Airport movies with a 2001 A Space Odyssey format. A lone pilot and an AI named Hal.YouTube the ending.
bt1104053
Bob Turner 6
WOW, its sure going to get hard to get real life experience if you can’t go along as a copilot. Next thing you know the new captains you trust your passengers with won’t have a clue how to deal with problems they might have encountered as copilot.
gacoon
gacoon 1
That is an excellent reply and holds much truth to it.
jbermo
jbermo 5
Just the "Camel's nose under the tent" for the following step to fully autonomous flight. Such hi-tech desires and ambitions just won't go away . . . in fact, they will never go away.

[This poster has been suspended.]

MikeMohle
Mike Mohle 1
I am glad I am old! Probably won't happen in my lifetime.
thundergob
Martin Allan 5
I really like your comment Sean Awning it would also be a good confidence inspiring move for the customers!
SeanAwning
Sean Awning 8
I'm not that kind. Executives and majority shareholders are a dime a dozen. Good lab rats. Flight crew, cabin crew, maintenance crew, ground crew -- those are specialists who need training and experience to do their jobs, harder to replace.
SeanAwning
Sean Awning 1
OK, I'll double down. Have them meet the same drug testing rules as the pilots. Have them stop drinking 8 hours before a flight designed to prove the concept. Let them sit in comfort until 30 minutes before descent, then bring them with a handler to the jumpseats and have them watch the pilots work. On short final, have ATC order them to execute a missed approach with the wheels less than 200 feet above the runway, and divert to a different airport, so they see what "routine" changes in plan do to the workload. Clean and sober, I bet they change their minds. And if they still want to proceed, put them all on one plane and fly them around until the concept is proven, with as man Autolands as possible.
RainbowRiver
Phil Nolden 5
Been flying since age 14 in a J-3 (with an instructor). Flew in Viet Nam (3AM and a DFC), corporate, and retired as a captain for a major U.S. passenger carrier. Anyone who would depend upon a single pilot in commercial aviation needs to have their head examined!
wallymorph
Wally Morph 5
As I have stated before on a similar article, this has nothing to do with safety, rather another tiny tick in a box to say ‘my aeroplane running costs are cheaper than the competition’

If they are serious about automation replacing real people, then replace managers with AI from the CEO down, save a fortune and I would suspect no deaths from bad decisions.
ajitkrishnamohan
Ajit Krishnamohan 2
And the first decision taken by those AI managers will be to replaced human pilots with more AI.
jbbooks1
Lewis Tripp 8
If there isn't two in the front office, and it don't fly on jet fuel, Lew Tripp ain't going.
srobak
srobak 0
You must not fly on many small biz jets, then.
ED3000
Edgar Costa 4
Stop Madness
Let’s keep 2 Pilots
Passengers Safety should always be priority Number One
tedperezfa
Ted PEREZ 4
Starting with military cargo operations concurrent with commercial cargo operations. Followed by short haul regional operations to /from dedicated airfields.
rdzr1
rdzr1 4
I think this one is more about one pilot in the cockpit during portions of a long haul flight for Airbus and the ability of one crewmember to rest in the cockpit for Dassault. Some relatively short international flights require augmented crews under Part 121 that may be better served with automation. Same with Dassault where they propose a fully reclining cockpit seat for brief crew rest on long flights given the state of the automation on their jets.
ypsharma45
Yadunandan Sharma 4
Defibrillator rushed to cockpit as medical emergency forces WestJet flight back to Calgary
Submitted about a year ago
A plane flying from Calgary to Atlanta Monday afternoon was forced to turn around due to a medical emergency involving the pilot. WestJet flight 1590 landed safely at Calgary International Airport at 1:12 p.m. Monday, just less than about an hour after taking off, according to public flight logs. Strangely WestJet declined to comment on the condition of the pilot citing "privacy". EMS that had been dispatched to the airport did not have any patient contact and left so I wonder if the… (headtopics.com) More...
Overtoom
Paul Overtoom 4
We may have to remind Airbus and Dassault of the scope and importance of the classic four-eyes-principle. One of the more important reasons that my airmiles are safer than my ground miles is that I drive my car alone.
ssobol
Stefan Sobol 3
Garmin has a system for smaller planes (including multiengine and light jets) that will take total control of the aircraft if someone pushes the emergency button. No reason a plane with an extensive autopilot like pretty much any modern airliner couldn't have it too.

https://discover.garmin.com/en-US/autonomi/
jdriskell
James Driskell 4
this makes as much sense as a self-driving car! With all the automation on board a 777, the Koreans still put one in the sea wall at SFO.
spm71
Sean Mathews 4
Not the best example. Had they let the airplane shoot an autoland the accident wouldn't have happened.
jdriskell
James Driskell 6
They forgot the first rule: Aviate!
jlfc
jose figueroa 2
No way I would fly in a plane a single pilot.
CAH747
CLARENCE HELLER 2
I think that the concept of one pilot is good . Now I also want you to spend 9 months producing it, then 21 years training it plus 3 more years specializing in air movement above the ground, you will also need a A I check ( overseer) in place to clear regulations.. Am I much to advanced for you?? I'll ride it it, but in 27 years I'll be dust.
BlueEagle125
Juan G Mendez 2
There is a very good reason for having two pilots at the controls of a passenger carrying jet. The development of new technology for controlling the path of the aircraft doesn't obviate the reason(s). This may be one of those things we can do but perhaps should not do. Technology is not reason enough to take this step, and the savings of overhead doesn't justify this step. We need more time and development before pushing this forward.
dalej2
Dale Johnson 2
What IF that one pilot has a heart attack and dies on one of those long haul trips? I can't imagine the fear that will strike the passengers riding in a pilot-less ghost plane.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 1
No the Flight attendant just has to activate the Otto Pilot and all will be OK.
Just kidding. I guess the plane will just fly until it runs out of fuel and then finds it’s own way to the ground. One thing is certain is that eventually they all return to the ground.
aca856
Rob Hall 2
I can't help but wonder how AI would handle extreme or 'unusual' failures i.e. would AI have 'opted' to land in The Hudson? Could AI compose creative solutions to problems? After reading 'Fate is the Hunter', I can't help but think of some of the scenarios that Captain Gann managed to come up with that saved the day that AI probably could not even consider. How does one 'code' pilot instinct and 'thinking outside the box', even making the aircraft do things it's not supposed to do to avoid catastrophe?
RainbowRiver
Phil Nolden 2
Been flying since age 14 in a J-3 (with an instructor). Flew in Viet Nam (3AM and a DFC), corporate, and retired as a captain for a major U.S. passenger carrier.


Anyone who would depend upon a single pilot in commercial aviation needs to have their head examined!
helensreekumar
sreekumar kumaran 3
Just like inventing the Atom bomb to end the world war and hoping that all will be fine, AI is the next invvention which will bring our world closer to midnight on the doomsday clock.
jrgp1
Jose R Gonzalez 3
What will happen when the pilot has go and lay a couple of turds. Ask one of the flight attendants to mind the store? This is ridiculous. But, hell, Airbus always was ridiculous.
Propwash122
Peter Fuller 2
Depends
jmilleratp
jmilleratp 4
Just stop. With some older pilots dying right in their flightdeck seats, this is an outright crazy idea. Of course it comes from Airbus.
EileenKerrigan
Eileen Kerrigan 1
It's not just older pilots -- in fact, it's the pilots in the mid-range age group that are keeling over most often. In other words, the ones most likely to have been adversely affected by the mandated COVID shots :-/
avionik99
avionik99 -2
You would only need half the pilots, therefore you can just lay off all the old ones?

[This poster has been suspended.]

TimDyck
Tim Dyck 1
So seniority no longer matters?
dwlamm
David Lamm 2
Reminds me of Otto in the farce flick Airplane. Otto suffered a deflating emergency. No thanks, I would rather walk, thank you!
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 2
But any flight clerk can easily reinflate a limp Otto Pilot.
gbcotten
greg cotten 2
It would appear to me most of the commenters did not read the first line of the article, so I will quote it “…advocate for one-pilot operations during majority of long-haul flights.”

That does not state nor imply only a single pilot in the air. One should infer that both pilots are in the cockpit for takeoff and landing, so for a very long haul flight you might see a reduction from 4 to 3 pilots and on a shorter one from 4 to 2 as a possibility, depending on the crew rest rotation.
franciemr
Fran Moreno-Randle 2
No, I don't think commenters are not reading this correctly. The article states:
"In response to the mounting concerns, Janet Northcote, EASA’s communications director, stated that any approval for reduced crew flights would necessitate proof from manufacturers that the safety standards are comparable to current two-pilot operations."
The quote can easily lead one to understand that not even 2 pilots will be part of the crew. Just my 2 cents.
CAH747
CLARENCE HELLER 1
Will ticket sales increase so company can make a profit? I don't think so.
FredSuarez
Fred Suarez 1
Do NOT support one pilot !!.
Have we had pilots sick ?, Yes.
Have we had pilots dead?, had one recent !!.

Do not agree !, support! fs
claytonvandiver
Clayton Vandiver 1
When the Flight Engineer was eliminated many decades ago and a three man workload was reduced to two man, there were accidents and innocent lives were lost. When automation recently brought many innocent lives to an abrupt end on the 737 Max even with the attention of a two man crew, I thought the point had been finally made to administrators about the dangers of relying solely upon automation and how valuable the human element really is. I see now that there is no level of stupid that administrator will not stoop to as long as someone saves a few pennies and continues not to have any regard for common sense or value for human life. Jeff Goldblum playing Dr. Ian Malcolm in Jurassic Park reminded us that often we become so eager to do something because we "can" that we completely forget to think about whether or not we "should." I vote that we should not. I support my vote with critical thinking and the lives of every soul lost since flight engineers were eliminated that could have been saved by the addition of that 1 extra set of experience on board.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 1
Sadly I don’t think this will end well…
Viperguy46
Jesse Carroll 1
Just say NO!
I'll take a bus or drive myself!
DRotten
D Rotten 1
With all of these (Injected) pilots getting ill/dying in the cockpit.....good luck with THAT! If I still took 'plane rides', there would be no way on Earth that I would ever set foot on a 'single pilot' flight!
aboriginee
Roberto Buschmann 1
Ok, then let the commercial aircraft mechanics work in maintenance also without checker and without the four eye principle in their own responsibility. The experiences for the introduction of the four eye principle in the air and on the ground was written with blood and are an iron pillar of aviation. The designer of pilotless aircraft with passenger transportation will certainly not want to do without redundant systems. So why should one forego redundancy when using human “components”. I think in the mass pax transportation will the flight without pilots on board meet a psychologically big and high barrier and rejection. In some cases have human intuition and experience saved lifes. (Sorry for my poor and simple english)
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 3
Due to budget constraints that Iron Pillar has been replaced with one made out of paper mache and no longer has any integrity.
JMcCague
J McCague 1
No pilot cargo flights are already being conducted in northern Canada .
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 1
Were? I live up here and have never seen one or even heard of one.
ctrautve
Chad Trautvetter 1
To be clear about Dassault's plans: the Falcon 10X will still be a two-crew airplane. But to reduce the need for a third flight crewmember on long-range trips, the pilot seats will be able to fully recline to allow one of the pilots to lie flat and rest during the cruise phase while the other monitors/flies the airplane. Both pilots remain in the cockpit at all times when this occurs, and the flying pilot can always awaken the resting pilot if there's any problems.
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 4
So a pilot having a heart attack or stroke can just reach over and wake up the other pilot?
brwitte1
Barry Witte 1
These comments are somewhat speculative. I encourage everyone interested to read the technical details of US Patent US 8,761,965

Spoiler alert: Boeing already has this figured out - way back in 2014- -with as few as zero pilots or any number of unauthorized pilots.
Mmeyers7167
Michael Meyers 1
One less $500K a year body in in the cockpit is a good thing for the stock shareholders. Imagine how the profit margins will increase.
RexBentley
Rex Bentley 4
Yeah, wrecked airplanes and dead passengers are just the cost of doing business, public will get over it, right?
TimDyck
Tim Dyck 1
That’s why they have insurance…
Mmeyers7167
Michael Meyers -1
You can’t stop AI! It’s coming and there is nothing you can do. Start with Cargo Operations, then move to passenger operations.

Login

Don't have an account? Register now (free) for customized features, flight alerts, and more!
Did you know that FlightAware flight tracking is supported by advertising?
You can help us keep FlightAware free by allowing ads from FlightAware.com. We work hard to keep our advertising relevant and unobtrusive to create a great experience. It's quick and easy to whitelist ads on FlightAware or please consider our premium accounts.
Dismiss