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Counterfeit titanium was found in Boeing and Airbus jets

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Titanium that was distributed with fake documentation has been found in commercial Boeing and Airbus jets. Now the Federal Aviation Administration, the aircraft manufacturers and supplier Spirit AeroSystems are investigating whether those components pose a safety hazard to the public. (www.cnn.com) More...

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patpylot
patrick baker 21
the hits just keep on coming......
linbb
linbb 19
Yup for BOTH of them this has been an ongoing issue for several years not just recently. There has been also for fastners, bolts and such too. I am quite surprised as a paper trail is required for all items not just what was mentioned. For years low quality fasteners have been around from off shore sources of very poor quality. To find them supplied for aircraft is shocking.
georgewilhelmsen
I think you are assuming these are fasteners. I believe it is structural elements like ribs.

Yes, and they were provided with falsified paperwork. I wonder who is investigating the Chinese company who supplied the parts?
sparkie624
sparkie624 4
You are mostly correct... The Titanium is more like sheet metal used in areas of High Temp.. Find it a lot in Engines and APU's, but not in structures.... Unless the plane is super sonic as the SR-71 is. Also, most Rivit's are Aluminum as well.
xmitr
Don Whyte 1
rivets
sparkie624
sparkie624 4
Ok.. A Typo!
victorbravo77
victorbravo77 7
The original NY Times article referred to above:

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/14/us/politics/boeing-airbus-titanium-faa.html?unlocked_article_code=1.zk0.2AwX.BvxpuKeOhw3P&smid=url-share
jmilleratp
jmilleratp 2
Thank you for providing a Shared Article.
Gerhard1
Gerhard Furter 5
Part of Boeing's problem is their supplier Spirit, who also supplies Airbus...
Interestingly, nobody is talking about Airbus....
Nor is anybody talking about the main cause of Boeing’s quality problem, which is poor workmanship i.e. workers not doing their job properly in the first instance….
sparkie624
sparkie624 2
I noticed no one is talking about Airbus... Just goes to show you that users hear seem to judge too quickly... They need to Make Spirit make full restitution and then some.
sparkie624
sparkie624 9
Every Company, not just Boeing is being hit with Counter Fit parts and it is getting hard to determine the good from the bad. This is not just Titanium, but many parts with falsified paperwork.
felinebabe265
Ellen Little 4
Many years ago I was working in San Diego for an airplane manufacturer and was so proud seeing an airplane from the ground up being constructed. It was a real thrill.
I also remembered the paperwork and blueprints involved.
Have we sunk so low with to hell with a fine product to profits come first!!
Jkvarma1
Profit profit profit for the stock market at any cost 😞

[This poster has been suspended.]

feote
Ken Jackson 14
A Chinese supplier has been mentioned, but not identified to my knowledge. The materials were sold to several distributors which then sold to subcontractors, according to vastly different articles in the NYT and WaPo today 6/13. I hope I am not alone in wondering if this documentation SNAFU wasn’t intentional on the part of the PRC. Expensive investigations for cheapo disinformation.
xtoler
Larry Toler 5
This comes down to greed. I worked for a shady guy for an aircraft parts supplier. We landed a potential new contract with a sub to supply. He wanted me to ship to them a day before their license cleared. That was a big negative, and I was looking for a new real quick. Later on, I heard this guy quit to start a new company. No, he wasn't Chinese.
pulseins
Scott Haas 7
"The most serious and high profile problems involve Boeing, which had two fatal crashes of its 737 Max due to a design flaw in 2018 and 2019 that killed 346 people and led to a 20-month grounding of the jet. More recently a door plug blew off an Alaska Airlines 737 Max flight on January 5, forcing the plane to land with a gaping hole in its side."

I lived in Seattle when I was a boy. Boeing ruled the place. Quality was king. Now, it's simply the color green that rules them, as well as most other large manufacturers. This is what happens when you outsource parts to other companies and countries with little control over quality. The only emphasis now seems to be lower cost to the manufacturer with faith misplaced in persons who see only a way to profit bigger while no one is looking. The Max line of Boeing jets especially is rapidly proving itself to be the Boeing Pinto. Unsafe at any speed. I fear this is only the tip of this Titanic iceberg and a full audit of Boeing especially would be frightfully enlightening. Gotta go now, my dutch roll is warmed and waiting for me.
PlainSpeaking
Brent Bahler 1
The subject of Ralph Nader’s 1965 book, “Unsafe at Any Speed,” was the Chevrolet Corvair. The Pinto first went on sale on September 11, 1970.
blt56
blt56 -1
Maybe Scott meant if you rear-end the plane it blows up??
bingobanner
Russ Brown 1
Hey Scott, where did you go to high School? One more of us online and it will start to rain.
cordery
Alan Cordery 2
I thought the story was that the titanium was ok, but the paperwork was falsified which maks tracking performance impossible. Supplier was Spirit. So, what’s the story?
sparkie624
sparkie624 1
If the paperwork is not ok, the product is useless... If they can get the correct paperwork, than it can become good. As it stands as written.. Bad paperwork, Bad Part... No matter how good it is.
locomoco
M.F. LaBoo 2
Interesting that this was identified by corrosion holes, yet the metallurgy was stated to be within specs. Not sure how that computes.
sparkie624
sparkie624 0
Not really... Differential Metals Corrosion!
asellitto
A Sellitto 4
Boeing isn’t doing well with Starliner either! Time for more than just new leadership.
Nooge
Nooge 1
Time for more than just new leadership.

And that is ?
MArdaiz
Matthew Ardaiz 3
Our government and corporate leadership could prevent this by acting on the common knowledge that China is our enemy, NOT our friend. They are just pretending to be friendly. It’s part of their “long game”. It has been this way since the end of WW2, after we sacrificed much and many to protect and free them. Disgustingly, our elected officials and CEOs are pathetically self-centered and greedy, so they sacrifice OUR safety for their personal gain.
georgewilhelmsen
A supplier with falsified documentation. From where? China.

Surprised?

Yet you don't see that in the story CNN....have to wonder why, but focusing on Boeing....have to wonder why.
sicamore
sicamore 4
Spot on. China and Russia have every interest in seeing confidence in western airliners dissolve. Flooding th market with subpar parts, their greatest hope would be an accident. I lived and worked in China for many years, this is totally their MO

[This poster has been suspended.]

Nooge
Nooge -3
Xiden phobia is rampant among our Authoritarian promoting and chattering Conned-servative lower class

Soon inmate number P01135809, processed and released on bond will be behind bars where he belongs


Soon but Not soon enough.
RickBennette
Rick Bennette 1
Businesses need to ramp up products made in America. We need to stop relying on the crap made by deceptive Chinese companies. It will take time and perhaps cost more to build here, but the less expensive shipping costs will defray some of the higher wage costs. The chinks are simply too dishonest to deal with.
Doonhamers
Disappointed that Airbus is involved and totally unsurprised that Boeing is.
How is Boeing still being allowed to manufacture aircraft considering the number and enormity of its failings that have come to light? How many problems have not come out yet? Boeing needs to address and correct all its failings before sending anymore planes to customers.
xtoler
Larry Toler 3
Boeing and Airbus use some of the same suppliers. When I worked for SATAIR, we supplied equipment to both aircraft. However, we were mostly after market and sold to specific airlines and other suppliers. Ensuring we had legal, documented, "real" parts was a big deal.
sparkie624
sparkie624 -2
With that in mind... How was Airbus ever allowed to fly in the US! The Airbus is an Autopilots Airplane, the Boeings are Pilots Airplanes... Big differences in the design and engineering of the planes! Boeing philosophy is that the Pilot should have the final authority, Airbus is that the Computers should have the final authority... Look at Air France always believing what they read and died tried to figure it out in the ocean... You need pilots, not supervisors in cockpit.
Doonhamers
How can you say that Boeings are not computer driven. In case it slipped your memory the 2 fatal Max crashes (killing everyone on board) were due to the MACS computer system not the pilots having the final authority. The pilots knew nothing about the MACS system. Airbus planes are currently built to a better quality standard than profit driven Boeing. That is why you read media stories about people trying to find routes that don’t having Boeing planes on. That really only leaves Airbus planes for people to fly on. Airbus is allowed to fly in the US as their planes stay in the sky and don’t have panels that fall out whilst in in the air!!
jselwyn
Jerry Selwyn -3
Boeing . . . lost themselves COMPLETELY at WOKE. Clearly, instead of due care in builds that ensure 'life', they went for DEI and chose unqualifieds for that 'Look at Us, we SHINE' polished faux look.

Now, may all the Libs of the world board these Boeing Planes and let what will be, BE . . . lesson in the concept of 'ownership' !!!
sparkie624
sparkie624 -2
Even with that.. they are 10 times Better than Airbus!
Doonhamers
sparkie624. You do like ignoring facts. Boeing used to build good quality planes but they don’t currently. Airbus currently makes good quality planes which are of a substantially better quality than Boeing. You seem very anti Airbus despite their much better recent safety record. There are people looking to find routes that don’t have Boeing planes on, you don’t find the same for Airbus. Come out of your fantasy alternative reality and face facts. Airbus built planes are currently substantially better than Boeing built planes!!
sparkie624
sparkie624 0
Are you a Mechanic or a Pilot! Sounds like neither... I do NOT like Airbus in anyway shape or form. In my opinion the Fly By Wire on those planes is not sound and I do not trust it. Airbus has been a substandard aircraft since its beginning.. There is one big difference between Boeing and Airbus that puts Airbus at the bottom of the heap of everything. Airbus Believes that the computers have the final authority of the airplane where Boeing believes that the Pilot should have Final Authority... Electronics Fail... Give me a break... I hate flying on those "AirSkuds" as I call them.. Look at "Aeroflot Flight 593" - Computer flying the plane... Captains Son was in the cockpit sitting on Dad's lap... Touched the yolk and the A/P disconnected and the crew was unaware and there was no audible tone to indicate A/P Disconnect... the Avionics correctly showed the flight path that it was on, but do to the pilots excessive trust in the A/P, and allowed the Autopilot to fly it straight into the ground... (NO SURVIVORS/Totally Preventable, Pilot Error), I stand by what I said... I Hate Airbus's and their excessive fly-By-Wire and reliance on the Auto Pilot... These planes are doomed for failure.... Boeing believes the Crew should have the final authority of the A/C not like Airbus who believes automation should have the Final Authority. I want A Pilot in command, not a Piece of Electronics!
Doonhamers
How can you say that Boeings are not computer driven. In case it slipped your memory the 2 fatal Max crashes (killing everyone on board) were due to the MACS computer system not the pilots having the final authority. The pilots knew nothing about the MACS system. Airbus planes are currently built to a better quality standard than profit driven Boeing.
I went to Kennedy Space Center in May and was on the tour bus going to where the Saturn V rocket is based. We went near the Boeing building. There were a large number of comments that the Starliner wouldn’t take off or how many pieces would fall off if it did. You look at the latest news on the Starliner that actually took off recently has had numerous problems. A quote from the media states “ However, their arrival followed a 24-hour flight in which the spacecraft encountered four helium leaks and five failures of its 28 manoeuvring thrusters.” That kind of quality seems currently endemic to the whole company.
I suspect from your comments that either you or your family are in someway involved with Boeing. Boeing’s recent track record is appalling compared to Airbus.
I am neither a pilot or a mechanic and you don’t need to be to look at facts. I suggest that you take off your rose tinted Boeing glasses and do the same. Airbus may not perfect but at the present time have a track record way, way ahead of Boeing.
sparkie624
sparkie624 -1
That is not what I said... Is what I was saying in short order was Boeing Believes the Pilot should have the final authority of the aircraft where Airbus believes the computer should have final authority over the aircraft. You can manually configure for the pilot to override, but it is not that way by default.
Doonhamers
You just ignore facts. Airbus has a much better current quality record than Boeing. From planes to spaceships Boeing is in a terrible place. I would like you to argue that Boeings are 10 times better than Airbus to the passengers on the two fatal Max crashes or those on board the Boeing when the door panel fell out.i suppose you think that the latter was Boeing allowing the passengers a bigger window and some fresh air!!
Look at the facts and not your biased and closed view. Hopefully Boeing will rectify their terrible quality issues but at present Airbus is making better quality planes than Boeing.
druck13
druck13 2
Whilst on Airbus the computer has final authority when operating normally (normal law), but the pilots are trained that they can quickly switch alternative or direct law modes, which can be used to partially or fully override the computer protections in case of problems.

On the 737 MAX, the pilots thought they had final authority as they did on the 737 classic and 737 NG, however Boeing deliberately withheld the information that the MACS could override the pilot, to avoid the costs of additional training.
KoolerKT
KoolerKT -3
This world needs Jesus to return stat!
sparkie624
sparkie624 -1
Amen!

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