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Stunning Nose Gear Collapse Caught on Video - What Went Wrong?

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This sobering video from Tucson, AZ shows a nose gear collapse in a Remos G3. The accident occurred during a training flight with a student pilot at the controls. After flying a high approach, the aircraft lands hard, appears to bounce, then the nose gear collapses. According to the student pilot’s remarks, the airplane stalled prior to touch down, but I don’t buy it. (www.aviationchatter.com) 기타...

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grinch59
More food for thought. He mentions kicking in right rudder. Did he accidentally cross control the aircraft making it drop faster and harder on the nose wheel?

No mention of flap setting. No flaps, stall speed is higher.

Another possibility is wind, shear or directional shift. Effects lighter aircraft more rapidly than the big boys.

And last but not least, did he get hit by and unusual heat thermal? On hot days I normally like to plan on landing at a little higher airspeed. Easier for going around in case anything unexpected happens.
ExCalbr
"Another possibility is wind, shear or directional shift. Effects lighter aircraft more rapidly than the big boys. "

Well, with a larger aircraft, there is more inertia, so it tends to keep its motion relative to ground, whereas a smaller aircraft can be moved more quickly by the wind, thus changing its groundspeed. But it's air speed that's important for stalls. Smaller aircraft will maintain air speed better than larger aircraft because the lower inertia allows them to go with the flow.
grinch59
Tell me Victor, what happens to a light aircraft that had a 15 knot head wind, which became a 15 knot tail wind? You just lost 30 knots of airspeed. When you are close to stall speed what happens? Even just take the 15 knot head wind and then the winds go calm and you are at 5 knots above stall speed. You just lost lift.
ExCalbr
The light aircraft, under your scenario, accelerates in ground speed more than a heavy aircraft does. Of course, the light aircraft has a lower stall speed and consequently the wind sheer is a greater percentage of the stall speed. But the heavy aircraft is less able to maintain air speed than the lighter aircraft because of its greater inertia. This is Newton's first law of motion.

Ask your same question of heavy aircraft. What do you think happened with Delta 191?
grinch59
Delta 191 was the result of a microburst-induced wind shear. According to the accident report the L1011 was landing at 149 knots IAS. When it got hit by the microburst. The airspeed went up to 173 knots then down to 119 IAS with several DOWNDRAFTS causing a descent of 5000ft/min, causing its first impact with the ground some 6300 feet short of the runway.

That is why you have Doppler Radar at airports and airborne wind shear detection and alert systems on all commercial aircraft today. Are you now suggesting the incident in Tucson was caused by a microburst?
ExCalbr
of course not
grinch59
Victor - You are only considering Newton's first law of motion. I suggest you consider the following information (LIFT, which is what I am discussing) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lift_%28force%29 and deals with Newton's second and third laws of motion.
mpradel
Every time I come in to land, I can hear my instructor screaming "NOSE UP" inside my head.. usually results in a perfect full-stall main-gear only greaser!

the CFI needs to get a proficiency ride.
royalbfh
royalbfh 0
Never flown one of those flying jet skis, but do they all approach at such a high speed? Plus, he landed what looked like half way down the runway. Would have won the "short field landing" category at the local fly-in though...Agree with Smith, I would have gone around.. but i am old school..
daerico
Its not supposed to lol
geoflyer
If go arounds are old school, we're all in trouble. I learned to fly two years ago and I had it pounded into my head that it was MUCH better to go around than badly botch a landing. When this guy crossed the numbers I could hear my instructor's voice saying, "go around, try again".
ArmyAV8R
ArmyAV8R 0
CFI should have recognized and corrected. Responsibility and Accountability.
vfrflypacer
scary, I assume the student was attempting his private pilot license... Any accident that happens with an instructor, or during flight instruction, including solo flights, is the responsibility of the flight instructor, as the flight is taking place under his\her ticket, not under the student's.
mcurvin
mcurvin 0
Light Sport aircraft behave this way. They are light and with so little wing loading that wind you would ignore in a larger craft (say a 172) can be life threatening. On low approach in a Pipersport the same thing happened to me, except we were over the threshold at 50 ft or so. The plane dropped violently and the lap belt yanked me so hard into the seat that my back was sore for days. Fortunately I reflexively firewalled the throttle and got the plane under control. Spoolup on a Rotax is pretty much instantaneous. If we had been at 20ft AGL I'm sure there would have been impact and damage. I love the light sport movement, but I hate the planes.
padgettrea
Wow?? I was thinking more of Ouch, I think I broke my nose.
billyragan
hope the pilot had paid his insurance premium that month
linbb
linbb 0
Drive it into the runway nose first it happens evey time nose gear retracts and prop stops dont even have to use the brakes to stop. Instructor should have had the controls and prevented it.
jland1
Darwin is alive and well.
chalet
chalet 0
He came too high, did not kill the engine soon enough and the CFI screamed "bring it down, dammit", and the poor sould got nervous.
grinch59
Were you in the non-existent rear seat?
shattuckb02
Well, he definitely hasn't perfected the flare yet...
onceastudentpilot
I see he is trying to plead his case....he must be a lawyer..Maybe the plane really did stall..It may have been a gusty day and they didn't factor that in on their approach speed...But it looks more like he paniced after the first bounce and drove it into the ground....Plus I doubt the fire wall on that thing is very strong either.
Boatinman
Probably didn't wanna pay for another 15 mins of instruction by going around
rootuser
The nose attitude is mighty low... hey look! It's the control column in the video! Shouldn't it be almost in full back position? The instructor should've caught that.
flyingcookmosnter
FedEx Flight 80 in minurature. Gusty winds could have also caused the lack of lift in ground effecrt but all in all, this was just a fast and ugly approach.
flyingcookmosnter
http://flightsafety.org/files/alar_bn6-4-bounce.pdf

A good read regarding bouncy landings. May be a good idea to apply these recommendations even in small piston aircraft.
chicoaggie
TOGA TOGA TOGA!
ExCalbr
What was the date/time of this crash?
grinch59
What bearing does date and time have on the incident? If you want to know weather conditions, then say so! At any rate, a date is irrelevant since it is a bright sun shiny day. From looking at the tree shadows on his approach to runway 12 I would guess it is between 10 and 11 AM. Does that give you a clue as to why this incident occurred?
FedExCargoPilot
To FlyingCook Monster, you are very nice to the pilot, but I don't think that was the cause. There was no gusts or else the plane would be all over the place, but there was a steady wind, but no problem does not allow for landing on the nose gear, usually makes the landing better. Looked to be right down the runway, a little x-wind correction from the right should have been used. The problem was he landed on the nose gear, A/C could have been over gross weight. He also landed half way down the runway, but a forced landing wasn't needed he still had 5000ft left, its just that he/she doesn't know how to land and the instructor should have corrected for it. Unfortunately an error like that is very expensive for the school and the pilot itself as far as reputation.
FedExCargoPilot
After reading the pilots confusion, and re watching the video, the plane definitely did not stall, he was pushing the nose forward and landed in the green, and prop striked the ground and messed up his nose gear. I recommend going back to Flight Simulator. But I think the instructor should be to blame, this horizon CRAP! Focus on landing the plane not about the horizon! A/C was trimmed properly? Definitely too much power.
tomairak
classic three point landing inst. needs tailwheel training
arwingsc
I agree with the previous post, if the wind was gusty that day, it may have been an unfortunate timing of ballooning at the same time the wind died. Check the wind records for that day. Also, I'm an old tail wheel pilot and couldn't help but notice that the aircraft was not held in a three point attitude. That will cause the aircraft to touch down on the nose and those light aircraft don't have the strongest nose gear on the market. I always suck the wheel back to land squarely on the mains.

Doug

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