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Plane spotter catches moment when wing of landing regional jet scrapes runway

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The wing of an American Eagle regional jet scraped the runway as the flight landed at the McAllen International Airport in south Texas on Tuesday morning (www.usatoday.com) 기타...

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joelwiley
joel wiley 19
I'd heard some of the regionals were just scraping by. Now we have the photos to prove it.
iflyrjs
true but not the case with Envoy the "REAL" American Eagle
bentwing60
LOL joel!
joelwiley
I noticed wing scraped, not bent.
bentwing60
That's not contact, that's a full on OMG, what just happened, maybe you really do get what you are paying for (man at the controls) MOMENT!
priles
Concrete evidence.
Ruger9X19
When did Kyle Franklin start working for American Eagle?
30west
30west 6
Actually the airline operating the flight is Mesa Airlines and the crew Mesa employees.

All regional flights serving AA are branded American Eagle to distinguish those flights from mainline AA flights in the eyes of the flying public, some are operated by American Eagle (part of AMR) and others by a third party airline.
preacher1
I never have figured that out. Common liability law says that if your name is on it, it is yours and operated under your rules and dispatch, regardless of ownership and there is generally a lease or contract stating that the owner will abide by those rules. Now, us aviation folks know the difference but when it comes right down to it, the pax and DOT don't care. It has whatever name on the side, that's who will be responsible for it.
30west
30west 2
Preacher, I'm sure AMR would be listed as one of many defendants under any lawsuit arising from a Mesa or other regional flight contracted to feed AA. (cast a wide net and the deepest pockets theory?). However, it is certificated to conduct revenue service under its own Air Carrier Operating Certificate and use its own Ops Specs to operate its flights.

Looking back at the Colgan Airlines crash; its, and by extension the Regional airline industry as a whole, training, hiring, scheduling, procedures, practices, etc. were the focus of the cause. I'm sure Continental lawyers were kept busy deflecting as much liability to Colgan, the operator of the flight, as possible.

I agree with you that most of the pax don't have a clue who is operating the flight and don't notice the words painted near the entry door identifying "this flight operated by.....", they assume it is the major airline who sold them the ticket.
preacher1
Granted about the wide net, but during my 1st retirement, I had a truck line for about 4 years. I had about 200 trucks and about 100 owner operators. The owner operators ran under my authority and per my contract and DOT rules, as one of mine. In a lawsuit of any kind, it actually would go in reverse. The first action would come to the parent company. Only if they were operating outside the contract unbeknownst to me, were they liable, otherwise it is all on the certificate holder. As far as the regional airlines go, I realize that most have their own certificates and all that but if they are not operating under them, liability is to the certificate holder. In any lawsuit, an attorney worth his salt will go after all pockets but this is the path of the law. As with Colgan, they had to certify to the certificate holder that they were operating as directed. Once it was found that they weren't, they would have had liability as well. Had they been on terms, by the law they would not have had liability. Of course an attorney would not have walked away from deep pockets either. It's kinda screwey but trust me, that's how it is.
preacher1
I will also agree that it may use it's own ops specs in operating the flight but they must be in agreement with those of the certificate holder. The old simple rule applies, if your name is on it, it is yours.
30west
30west 1
The regionals run under their own authority by virtue of its Air Carrier Operating Certificate and are contracted by the majors to conduct those operations under that Certificate and FAA approved Ops Specs. They are providing that contracted service to the major. The major conducts its flying IAW its own Ops Specs. If the major was aware that a feeder regional was operating contrary to its own Ops Specs, the major assumes a lot of liability if it doesn't have the unauthorized practices corrected or stopped.

Here is another bag of worms....major airline Alliances, like One World, etc. The ticket was sold by American with an AA flight number, as well as a BA flight number, and its a BA jet and BA crew, it lands short of the runway. How is AA involved in the litigation? Now, I really need a lawyer!
30west
30west 1
Also, the Ops Specs of the two Carriers would also be different from each other. Some operations or minimums would be authorized for one and not the other. The regional might not have Cat II or Cat III landing authority for example, but the major does.
preacher1
That is an operational thing and as I said would be covered in the contract between the two. You are correct on that part in that the RJ would not derive anything from the major there. The other big difference is that with an RJ, that service is provided by contract. In the trucking world, tractors are leased. The lease and contract are similar but there is a difference.
preacher1
How you think so many lawyers stay in business. LOL. Just for talking sake, regardless of who shot john, if it has my name on it, I am liable. There is one notable difference though in trucking and the airlines. Most owner operators do not have their own authority and run under the carriers certificate. Those that do, contract to run under the carriers certificate and that part is the same with the RJ's. That said, you can do anything by contract but it will not change the guiding law. Like you said, it can turn into a big bag of worms and damn the law, deep pockets prevail. What is bad is when your insurance company puts it's liability on the table and says we are outa here, and cancels you on the spot. You'd better have a good lawyer.
30west
30west 2
"Better Call Saul", I understand he does good work!!!!
preacher1
Only the Good Lord helped out on that on. I know they started out wanting more than what my piggy bank had in it. They decided to take what was there. They didn't want to run a ruck line. LOL
joelwiley
Nope, just use your wallet as a strip mine.
jshhmr
I'm in the middle of binge watching Breaking Bad. I got that reference!
Ruger9X19
Sorry, I will fact check my jokes better in the future. I believe I did get the best guy at dragging a wing down the runway with Kyle though, He does a great job with that routine at airshows.
30west
30west 1
My bad, I miss that. Now Sean Tucker, I would have seen it!! ;-)
Ruger9X19
Sean Tucker has done things with an airplane I didn't know were possible, He is good enough I don't think it would be right to suggest he would ever drag a wing.
30west
30west 1
Wasn't trying to, just his name recognition on my part would have gotten my attention. I didn't pick up on Kyle.
LoralThomas
Wonder who's leg that was????
preacher1
Looks like CAVU or close to it. Wonder what happened. Bad wind or just sloppy flying.
LoralThomas
Probably one of those 1,500 hr. puppy mill FOs!
preacher1
LOL. How's that knee?
shootandfly
Could have been a lot worse, imagine if it would've been a 5 kt crosswind...
iflyrjs
Wx at MFE Mesa Flt 5786 DFW MFE
Metar KMFE 291553Z VRB03KT 10SM CLR 30/22
A2987 RMK A02 SLP114
T03000222=

The outgoing crew didn't think any was wrong it was the out going crew that discovered the damage from the walk around
jimmax23
Maybe wake turbulence? Other reports I've seen on the wind was light and variable at the time.
paulj09
I live in McAllen and can verify winds were light and variable that day.
My son flew on this same aircraft a few weeks ago from DFW to Lubbock. He can't say that it was the same crew of course, but he did tell me on landing at Lubbock the plane bounced. Four times.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 0
I see that "safety enhanced solution" created by morons, caused by the two Colgan idiots really helps!!! Let's get those $10000 CTP'S/ATP'S going. Those ATP flight mill graduates can't even tell in IMC if they're deviating around wx or Chicago, let alone land aligned with the runway in a 2 1/2 kt. crosswind!!!
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
Truth hurts, huh!!!
joelwiley
I think I saw somewhere that the pilot, rather than being fired, got a raise. Of course that may be due to the company taking the repairs out of his salary.
btweston
btweston 1
Was that the crosswind? The world needs more investigative journalists like you.
preacher1
Lemme tell you about this here land I got down in Luziana.
THRUSTT
THRUSTT 1
It was, I was there when it happened with my crosswind meter...
Twheaty
(Duplicate Squawk Submitted)

Photo: Plane's wing actually makes contact with runway

Man testing new camera doesn't expect to capture this horrifying moment

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/09/30/photo-planes-wing-actually-makes-contact-with-the-runway-during-rough-landing/
mnrobards
I hope someone reported the damage so the crew can get some more sim. training, or maybe asked to find another line of work. I once flew a regional from Huston to Baton Rouge with what I believe was a door seal leaking the entire flight. A nice whistling noise was coming from door.
Pileits
Pileits -4
BALONEY, there is NO wing contacting the ground that I can see here in the photo attached to the story. Idiots that label themselves as journalists and then print things like this associated article ought to be fired and BANNED from the news gathering industry for life, or at least taken to court to PROVE what they print.
btweston
btweston 3
Someone didn't read the article...
joelwiley
Right wheels and right wingtip on ground. Nose wheel in the air. Smoke a bit aft of the A/C. Can't see the left wheels, but from the tipping of the wings, surmise they are also airborne. The only juror who wouldn't see that as a scrape would be the airline executive.
preacher1
Maybe you oughta look at the 2nd picture in the story.; If that's not a scrape, I'll kiss your hiney on the courthouse steps and give you 20 minutes to draw a crowd.
preacher1
But then we still be friends. LOL
VKSheridan
One, just one picture of the underside of the wingtip could determine who gets to wear Chapstick on the courthouse steps. I wish they presented one as I want to test my new camera with the outcome of this friendly debate!

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