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Planes to fly on cooking oil

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Is it fair to imagine that some people just don't want to know about how certain things are done? If they did, perhaps their irrational side might overwhelm the blinkered side that helps them get through each and every painful day. Does everyone want to know, for example, that the Boeing 737 in which they are strapped is flying on the detritus of some very fine french fries? In the last few days, KLM and Thomson Airways, two European airlines, announced that they would be flying a plane… (news.cnet.com) 기타...

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BlazingPuppies
When fireing up the lawnmower, i always get a whiff of gasoline and it would remind me of the avgas spewing out of those old radial engine airplanes. Now, when i order a side of french fries it's gonna remind me of jet engines lol
onceastudentpilot
hmmmm.....doesn't the government already say that fried foods are bad for us and the cost of a regular bottle of cooking oil already cost around $3....just where are we supposed to get said cooking oil; the whole ethonal thing never really panned due to supply.....why are we so stupid that we just won't go the natural gas route?
usad
usad 0
I would like to know how many Joules of energy per gram are produced from the french fry concoction verses conventional Av fuel. Like Ethanol blends, it's not as efficient as pure gasoline...thus lower fuel milage. And I would bet the weight of this Julian mixture might be heavier too, verses Av fuel. Do we really need to do anything that might drive the cost of food higher by our naivete?
Fleagle
Fleagle 0
NOT a CLEAN Option.
Amazing. The patients've 'taken over' the Asylum.

All the bears'll be heading for the Airport in Anchorage.
Bears on the Taxiways and Runways;think of it!
(We already have Beavers and Otters__ heh,heh,heh)
CAMAI,Chugiiak!
alistairm
Interesting. Let's just see how much more effecient this will be. But then again, when the world runs out of oil (it will happen one day, it is not an "if") i suppose effeciency will be secondary. We are going to need something to fuel our trains, planes and automobiles. But then again, by the time we run out of oil, we may be flying with "Star Trek" like engines... who knows. There is tons of garbage and crap in this world. It would be revolutionary if we can fuel our aircraft with garbage or cow manure.
Wingscrubber
Tim - natural gas is not desirable for aircraft fuel, it's difficult to store at any useful volume unless it's under pressure which results in a huge pressure-vessel fuel tank which either has to be carried externally causing enormous drag, or internally taking up cabin space. Look up Tupolev TU-155, also draws parallels with using hydrogen as fuel.

Biofuels such as this, Jatropha, Camelina etc are the logical step to ween off from oil, unless of course abiogenic theory is correct ;)
Fleagle
Fleagle 0
Wow, Dr. Wingscrubber,
can't speak for anyone else,but I'd need a Translation.
No big Ting...not - 'in my realm of responsibility or sphere of influence'
don't have "a need to know."
Meantime, there's a Japanese scientist that has found a way to turn human effluvia(read: Shit; No.2; poo-poo,schiest; drech)into food..for consumption.
He's using food dyes to make the 'steak' and 'hamburger' the correct tinted red so it's more - appealing.
Lovely World. I'm glad I'm a `43 airframe and "set in my ways" with authentic things instead of "appearances" and stuff that 'seems'.
No shit Batmen. Bat girls. (bat shit!)
kb9uwu
big government takeover!
A6SEA
Good grief! 10% ethanol is eating our automobile engines, and now the inepts inside the Beltway are going to destroy all semblance of corporate innovation and success. Gak. Dumb.
N1982K
N1982K 0
All fuels meeting Jet A-1 and engine manufacturer specifications are fine to burn. If the fuel is made from something otherwise wasted such as cooking oil then it is a great idea, but when we take crops out of the food chain to make fuel and expend great amounts of energy in the process we need to ask questions. Oil based fuels will be the transportation fuels of choice for a long time to come and the good news is that they are in plentiful supply.
mickndot53
I know absolutely nothing about Jet engines, but my first thought in this case was the way vegetable oils gum up cooking utensils. It takes some really nasty stuff to get the residue off. Will this be a factor in jet engine use of cooking oils?
mdumont12345
I am thinking that all airports will start smelling like McDonals french fries, and that would not be a good thing. da
Debriefer
Re the comment "big government takeover!"

WHERE in the story was there ANY mention of government???????????????
It was a story about PRIVATE COMPANIES experimenting with a possible new technology...something the anti-government crowd supposedly supports.

It is amusing to see the knee-jerk reaction of the political right. To them EVERYTHING appears to be a government takeover.

Grow up! You anti-government anti-tax types sound like two-year-olds having a tantrum against Daddy-government!!!
RaySundar
Cooking oil for engines!
This the last thing we need our autos and planes to gobble up while the rest of the world is going hungry for lack of proper food and nourishment.
RaySundar
Further, I recently read that the military too are looking to use such oils. Not to mention another drain on resources for the hungry. Now we really have to sacrifice not only our economy but also our food resources to keep war effort going!
What a disaster we are heading towards!
bigboy1942b
Re: "Cooking oil for engines."

Here again, the reader has no comprehension of the subject being discussed. The oil being described is that which is useless after the cooking is done and would normally have to be disposed of. This is not keeping the needy from being fed! Nothing is being "sacrificed."
RaySundar
I am well aware of the oils and ethanol from corn etc. Right now corn is being grown on govt subsidy and some of it for ethanol production for fuel(based on all believable and true CBS 60 mins!)
mortyoung
There must be an easier way than using old oil. Like, jet engines being what they are, why not figure out how to feed french fries directly into the blades, mash and heat them, then spew out the remains: action makes reaction, propelling the aircraft forward. Add ketchup, and you've really got something much less expensive and complicated than turning oil oil into fuel. What ever happened to American initiative?
davisdd
when i was in the food service, we got a few bucks a pound for old oil. it went to making soap, perfume and other things. we got robbed by grease robbers on a regular basis. i wonder if the price for old oil will sky rocket and the food business will really lock up the old oil.
bigboy1942b
We are not talking about ethanol here. Sure, this oil was made from corn and used to cook food, which seems to be what you are worried about. After the cooking is done, this "used" oil is being recycled into something that can be mixed with and is similar to JP4, for use in a jet engine. In other words, we are getting two uses out of the same amount of oil, which seems pretty practical to me.
t1sby
Tim Bray 0
The point of the story should be noted. Used cooking oil is a renewable resource, vs. the limited and dwindling supply of hydrocarbon oils. This type of initiative will prove out, and end our dependance on foreign oil, and the expensive byproduct associated with them. Kudos to the companies for trying it. It worked didn't it? Boeing is also trying this.
robot40
Since food is no longer served for free on airlines in the U.S., if the fuel has anything to do with food, there will probably be a surcharge associated with it--anything to make an extra buck. No cash either--bring your credit card or your plane won't get the grease to fly! Kaching!!
RaySundar
I think the best way to use cooking oil is in the big mac trucks that convey oil from gas depot. The trucker can stop by at most restaurants and buy the used oil for their own driving and /or deliver it to the airlines etc. One has to always think of the bigger industrial process of used cooking oil supply chain. How much oil/gas/energy is used to transport gas itself.
dennisbier
cooking oil Jet A 1
cabuguas1
in the science of it all, all petroleum products come from the oil of plants, millions of years ago, modified by heat, and pressure. this is the same process that happens when we use hydrolysis or through chemical reactions like trans-esterification. what matters is that it is a viable fuel made from freshly produced oils, leaving the carbon contained in the petroleum that the earth sequestered millions of years ago. Boeing just did a flight with all engines fueled with a mix. this was the new 747, from Seattle, WA to Paris France.

my company produces 10 million gallons of bio-diesel a year, if done as Boing did, which is carbon neutral, this would make 90 million gallons of bio-Jet-A. so a lot of trans-Continental flights. a huge carbon savings on our atmosphere!
dmaccarter
Energy is energy. Heat is heat. McDonald's in Germany is using waste cooking oil from their deep fryers to run their deisel delivery trucks as much as possible.

If it meets specifications for Jet A..... go for it. Better burned in an aircraft engine than dumped down a sewer.
t1sby
Tim Bray 0
Good one Geoffrey. Point noted on the carbon.
AF6IT
Biodiesel is a wonderful and viable technology be it for wheeled vehicles or jet turbines. But we're dreaming if we think it can be scaled up to replace petroleum. Some mentioned ethanol- an absoluteley un-viable source of a primary fuel. It is necessary as an oxygenating additive to gasoline and can be used for processing biodiesel, but mostly it is a commodity designed to line the pockets of those receiving benefit of taxpayer funded subsidies- the big brokers and futures market players in particular. It canNOT net any significant amount of energy because it takes more energy to make it than we can get out of it. Not so for biodiesel, but just how many spare farm acres do we have for growing canola? Not enough, not even close! While I admire and cheer for biodiesel- and have no reservations about using it as a blend in a jet I might be a passenger on, this is mostly a contrived thing to make folks feel good about something without providing any genuinely significant solution. Of course, given how the "problem" itself is so greatly exaggerated, what is the big deal? Yes, we need to improve our stewardship of the planet, absolutely! But no, the proverbial sky is not falling. At least not because we use petroleum as a fuel source. (Anthrogenic CO2 is such a tiny contribution to the total CO2; natural sources positively dwarf what we can make!CO2 is irrelevant to normal climate cycles anyway) This whole arena has a lot more to do with politics than it does genuine science or engineering. Ironically, those who make it out to be a problem are the ones who keep the real solutions from being implemented. Maybe professional Chicken Littles are keeping us from making any genuinely effective advances, preferring instead to believe in and promote the utterly fantastic- & to maintain their perceived significance? May we please have a little more common sense now? So biojet fuel, go for it- just don't expect that it will save the universe!
A6SEA
Well said, Stu!
cabuguas1
I actually disagree with you. in its infancy, biofuels in the US will cross over the 1% mark this year, the Philippines is currently doing 2% biodiesel and 10% ethanol for its fuel needs. Brazil is close to 80%. this doesn't even look at the areas like India, and Africa. or China, which is moving quickly into Bio-fuels. As green fuels come into full acceptance, what you will find is that many high quality food crops are high in oil, the oil is almost always removed, as it makes food recipes in commercial production far more consistent. Soy, for instance is 20% oil. the African oil palm is a real headliner, producing over 60% oil canola, by the way is far lower at 5-10%. as Algae comes int commercial production, it is per acre, the highest producer of all, running over 6000 gallons per acre per year. to shock yourself, try looking up how many millions of acres the US Government pays to have nothing grown on it. then you will realize how easily the worlds petroleum can be replaced by bio based fuels.
buddyl
I have read and heard from many sources that the energy required to produce etahanol fuel exceeds the energy potential of the ethanol produced. There is also the (apparently) unintended consequence of the increased cost of agricultural products available for use as food due to the diversion of farm products for fuel production. I don't have a problem with the use of grease trap oil for fuel IF and AFTER unintended consequences are studied and acknowledged.

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