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Dale Earnhardt Jr's Citation Latitude Crashes on Landing (all crew and passengers okay)

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Racing star taken to hospital but escapes serious injuries (wcyb.com) More...

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jglenn48
JAMES GLENN 8
Better to keep quite and be thought an idiot than to speak out and remove all doubt-LOL.
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jwllane
Jerry Lane 2
To keep what???
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ByronPalmer
Byron Palmer 5
FAA initial report just released reads, "Aircraft experienced hard landing, bounced, departed runway, and caught fire.
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royalbfh
royalbfh 8
So a couple of Beechjets and a lear 45 flew in and out of there and I guarantee that they need more runway than the Latitude. The facts will come out soon enough..
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royalbfh
royalbfh 4
what does that even mean?
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afcjr1201
Allen Churchwell 8
he's an idiot
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bentwing60
bentwing60 3
he can't help it! new here?
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rwf1001
Robert Fleming 14
I am grateful to the Lord that the Earnhardt Jr. family and two pilots (and pup) are ok after this horrific and scary incident.
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craiglgood
Craig Good 2
The Lord could have prevented the accident. Clearly he has a warped sense of humor.
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bbabis
bbabis 1
The way He treats me, He has no sense of humor at all.
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siriusloon
siriusloon 1
If the Lord saved them, why did he scare the crap out of them first? I refer you to George Carlin's take on "God's will".
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davedoming9039
David Domingue 1
Sometimes He has to get our attention
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airuphere
airuphere 1
Are you the Karl Schneider who is an Delta Flight Attendant?
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bbabis
bbabis 1
All I can say is good luck with that Karl. Safe travels.
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[This poster has been suspended.]

siriusloon
siriusloon 1
Do you not see the hypocrisy in your statement: "I don't tell you how to think, so, don't tell me what to believe"? You are telling him how to think and what not to do. Adding the gratuitous "Ignorant fool" comment further undermines your credibility.

Continue to live in your reactionary, intolerant, unloving world where the bigoted pricks like you think they can tell the rest of us what to do and what to think because your own beliefs are so weakly held that you want to force everybody else to be just like you to reassure you that you're right.
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airuphere
airuphere 1
*mic drop*
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ntaconi
ntaconi 1
I always get a kick out of you atheists lambasting people of faith. We don't care what you think of us, yet you people care enough about what we believe to constantly berate, mock, and chastise us like children mocking their parents.

Here's the deal: you believe what you want, be it sun and moon gods, nothing, junk science of man-made climate change which seems to be the latest new religion of the left, or the flying spaghetti monster. We don't care, and you sure aren't going to make us change our minds to actually believe we are just a random scientific coincidence of life on planet earth... all life for that matter.
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bbabis
bbabis 6
Well said, but we've strayed far enough off topic.
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ntaconi
ntaconi 1
Indeed. It's a shame clowns like that can't just let things go and get triggered into a mouth foaming head spinning tirade against someone starting with a sympathetic "Thank God..." in a post.

I also want to let bully atheists like that know we are not going to be shutting up and going away either, all 6% of them who represent the world percentage population of atheists). So typical of a loud minority.
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siriusloon
siriusloon -6
And your fables aren't going to change my mind. Your loving god allows thousands of innocent people to be slaughtered by guns every year, yet you think a revision to a man-made document is more important than your god's commandments.
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afcjr1201
Allen Churchwell 1
GOD gave us free will. Lucifer is waiting for you, good luck
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[This poster has been suspended.]

siriusloon
siriusloon -4
All those fat asses in the typical American church need to read their Bible. Leviticus 3:17 — “You must never eat any fat or blood. This is a permanent law for you, and it must be observed from generation to generation, wherever you live.”

Or this one: Leviticus 19:27 — “Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard.”

Do you watch football or NASCAR on Sundays? Exodus 31:14-15 — “Observe the Sabbath, because it is holy to you. Anyone who desecrates it is to be put to death; those who do any work on that day must be cut off from their people. For six days work is to be done, but the seventh day is a day of Sabbath rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day is to be put to death.”

Remember this one before you start hurling insults: Leviticus 19:16 — “You must not go about spreading slander among your people. You must not endanger the life of your neighbour.”

Do you like ribs? Leviticus 11:7-8 — “The pig has evenly split hooves but does not chew the cud, so it is unclean. You shall not eat any of their flesh, and you shall not touch their carcasses; they are unclean to you.”

Support Trump's wall? Leviticus 19:33-34 — “When a foreigner resides with you in your land, you must not oppress him. You must treat the foreigner living among you as native-born and love him as yourself.”

Leviticus 19:18 — “'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbour as yourself.”

And just for giggles: Deuteronomy 23:1 — “A man whose testicles are crushed or whose penis is cut off may never join the assembly of the Lord.”
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airuphere
airuphere -1
He’s just a plain fucking idiot. Quit yelling at the clouds grandpa.
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rawhp1
Bryan Jensen 0
We all revere a supernatural Father. The choices are Lucifer or God. It is not astonishing that some people believe in God and some believe in Lucifer. We make our choice and hope it is the right one, because eternity is a very long time.
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siriusloon
siriusloon 0
No, we don't "all" do any such thing. But if you believe in myths and legends, I guess you'll believe that, too.
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sgbelverta
sharon bias 6
The Oct 2004 crash that took out a lot of the Hendricks Racing family also had a problem with a bad approach in poor weather. With racing owners and drivers having to be at tracks around the US 30+ weekends per year, flying is the only real option for them to get around. But they need to make sure their pilots have as much experience and training as their drivers, and their aircraft are as well maintained as their cars. Other race drivers killed in plane crashes are Davey Allison in 1993 and Alan Kulwicki, also in 1993.
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jbsimms
James Simms 1
Not to mention any sponsor commitments throughout the week in addition flying to/from race locales. Interesting to watch the NASCAR Air Force coming back from a race. Roush Racing had a 727 @ one time to get all of the various team members to/from a race
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onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 1
They had or have two. They were or are a main stay at the old terminal in CLT (the last place I saw them)..Most of the teams fly out of Statesville and Concord now; many use Embraer 135s.
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onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 1
I misspoke...Embraer 145s
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WhiteKnight77
WhiteKnight77 1
Davey was killed trying to take off, in a helicopter that he was flying, from the Talladega race track.
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wmr350
Mark Ryalls 1
No, he was landing.
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btweston
btweston -6
Ironic, eh?
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145T2
Jean Dauphin 3
These 5 people have been very lucky to be able to escape.
When you look at the video taken from a vehicle on highway 91 you see that the airframe has rolled on its lefthand side blocking the main entry door that could only be partially opened.
The other exit door is on the righthand side aft of the cabin above the burning wings.
If the airplane had rolled just a little bit more to the left the main entry door would have been totally blocked and the occupants would have been burned to death.
A fire truck is nowhere to be seen.
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ByronPalmer
Byron Palmer 1
Also, the chain link fence was wound around the fuselage. Fortunately, it did not cover the door so they were able to escape. Fire trucks were there in 2-3 minutes.
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therealsmeisme
Stephen Evans 4
I live in Elizabethton where the accident occurred. Incredible that no one was seriously injured.
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bcanderson
Brian Anderson 4
TRi-Cities has an 8,000 ft. runway, the obstacle clearance procedures are far less restrictive, and it's closer to the race track.

Fuel is more expensive at Tri-Cities though...
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dmedders
dmedders 4
Contract fuel at KTRI is only a few cents more per gallon — hardly a factor.
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WeatherWise
WeatherWise 5
Somehow I doubt fuel costs were a factor for the Earnhardt's or this accident.
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bcanderson
Brian Anderson 5
There's not even a published approach to Runway 24 at 0A9 due to high terrain on the approach end. So they would have had to descend on the visual at a greater than normal glide path angle to a 4,500 ft. runway. Why do you take a mid-size business jet into that situation?

Weighing all the factors available to me (and I am the first to admit I don't know them all) for a decision to go there instead of KTRI, there are plenty of factors to fill the "minus column". Cheaper fuel is the only factor (and a lightweight factor at that) that I can find to place in the "plus column".
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WeatherWise
WeatherWise 5
Per the FAA's incident page: AIRCRAFT EXPERIENCED HARD LANDING, BOUNCED, DEPARTED RUNWAY AND CAUGHT FIRE. That sounds like a crew problem, not a runway length problem.
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bcanderson
Brian Anderson 2
It's a terrain issue. Runway length (if that was the only factor to be considered) would have been adequate for the Citation Latitude. NTSB is saying the winds were calm. Runway 6 should have been the runway they chose. Due to terrain issues, a mid-size business jet has no business using runway 24 at that airport. Unstabilized approaches lead to unstable landings.
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bentwing60
bentwing60 0
That's a gnats ass compared to ASP and there aren't really that many guys that could do a "stabilized approach" consistently into ASP. I don't see anything but hills around this dead New jet. Kinda like Life nowadays, it ain't really about the performance level until it is!
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bcanderson
Brian Anderson 0
ASP? What's Cleopatra got to do with this?
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ByronPalmer
Byron Palmer 2
Elizabethton's runway has been extended to 5,000 feet.
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dmedders
dmedders 0
According to the AFD, it is 4,529.
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dmedders
dmedders 4
Just saw the NOTAM: 5,010 feet it is — since 2018. Good thing information propagates so quickly!
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onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 1
Depends on which end the threshold diplacement is on.
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bentwing60
bentwing60 2
It applies to 24.
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dmedders
dmedders 2
Not according to the NOTAM, “RUNWAY 06/24 CHANGED TO 5010FT X 75FT. 10 OCT 13:56 2018 UNTIL PERMANENT. CREATED: 10 OCT 13:57 2018”

The crew probably knew the actual runway length given their multiple landings at the airport.

How would a first-timer know based on the AFD entry and this NOTAM? Is the threshold offset still 429 feet or something else?

This is poorly managed.
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onceastudentpilot
tim mitchell 3
I noticed most of the flights that departed Statesville and Concord landed at TriCities. It would be interesting to know why they chose Elizabethton. It may have been poor planning or passenger request. Only time will tell.
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Drewlovesapple
Drew Palmquist 2
The plane was registration N8JR, as a Dale Jr Fan, i am thankful that everyone survived this accident
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bbabis
bbabis 2
Highly trained pilots, as these supposedly were, does not equate to safe pilots. Safety is between the ears.
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M20ExecDriver
M20ExecDriver 2
Reportedly landed mid runway.
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bbabis
bbabis 1
I haven't heard that confirmed but the final touchdown after the basketball effect might have been.

Love the the M20 Exec. Flew a 66 model about 600 hrs.
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gearup328
Peter Steitz 3
Bad choice of airports. Poor flying skills. KTRI would have been my choice. I flew into Tri Cities many, many times as a commercial pilot with USAir Express. Yes, RW23 slopes down but that is always built into performance calculations.
I would like to know what company owns and staffs the pilots. I doubt Dale had his own crew and airplane. That would be hard to justify financially. Maybe the Earnhardt's Empire did and this was one of their own flight department?
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dmedders
dmedders 5
Not a race fan, eh?

The tail number is N8JR registered to JRM Air, LLC — with a JR Motorsports logo on the vertical.

It is Dale Jr’s personal airplane.

CesNav does factor runway slope in its performance calculations.

The runway is now designated 24 — though that matters little.

That information provided, KTRI would be my choice for the operation.
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gearup328
Peter Steitz 5
David Medders, not a race fan to your extent. I live just outside of Indianapolis and I do know what racing is. I like your info on the N number.

I also have about 14,000 hours with 4 civilian aircraft type ratings and military aircraft which have no type rating. I am no stranger to aviation.

I only asked the question. Did he have his own pilots and personal aircraft? If so, I would have had the absolute best training and confidence that they would have not run off the runway. So why did they? Pilot error!!!!

Now as you stated, TRI RW24 is really RW23 in airport diagrams dated 15Aug to 12Sep. Magnetic variation is always changing. The airport has to paint new numbers and approach charts need to be updated.

Who really owns and staffs his personal jet? Here is where it gets really complicated and we have to let the FAA and NTSB do their job.

KTRI is where they should have landed.

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bentwing60
bentwing60 2
Well, if you are referring to charts with that date, you must be more retired than me! If you have to ask who "dunnit", you don't have a grasp of the gross operational errors they made to burn up an airplane like that!
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gearup328
Peter Steitz 1
I'll agree with you on the gross operational errors. Just a terrible landing.
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bentwing60
bentwing60 1
my faux pas on the chart date.
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ByronPalmer
Byron Palmer 1
https://wcyb.com/news/local/pilots-had-experience-with-elizabethton-municipal-airport-manager-says

https://wcyb.com/news/local/ntsb-plane-carrying-dale-jr-bounced-twice-right-landing-gear-collapsed-during-crash
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siriusloon
siriusloon 0
If you already know it's pilot error, why are you posting here and not working for the FAA and NTSB? They could both let all their other investigators go and you could just sit behind your keyboard issuing verdicts without ever having to go and investigate anything and dealing with facts that arise form an investigation. Clearly, your vast talents are wasted here.
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bentwing60
bentwing60 2
As are yours evidently! At least the comments from the ignorant, retired 10,000 hr. ATP's or pros. in general will predate an NTSB report one or more years down the road, with essentially the same conclusion. Some accident, incident results are so obvious in nature that little analysis is required if you did this stuff for ohh, lets say an entire career. So tell us which career site you inhabit so we can tell you what an idiot you are at your job!
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airuphere
airuphere 1
I agree with cirrusloon. Every time we have a crash posted to site god for bid with a celeb.. everyone steps up to “tell” everyone what the cause is.. hell even in the days on the first Max crash it happened and we’ll most of everyone was not Bang in, yet everyone spoke as if they were the ones writting the report. Sure it’s fun to speculate, humble yourself share ideas, but stop “telling” us what it is, and dusting off your log to tell us your experience. We all have it, as we all have opinions none of us have investigative facts.. which will come out in the report.
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bbabis
bbabis 2
No one is being told anything here. How you "hear" it is totally up to the reader. If you are upset by following this squawk, you have the option to edit or disable alerts on a particular squawk by clicking the link below the one you clicked to read the new alert. Knock yourself out and above all stay safe.
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airuphere
airuphere 1
I hear things as they are written. Granted this is a medium lacking direct emotion, but one can infer what is being communicated with punctuation, grammar and ya of caps. I never said anything offended me. Ever. I do feel as if some person with no aviation knowledge would read some posts and thing it’s fact. When the facts will come out officially and while it fun to speculate, many write as if they were watching from the tower. That’s all I’m saying. I will try to stay safe, and expect you do the same.
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bbabis
bbabis 2
Thumbs up.
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bentwing60
bentwing60 1
If you had ever been to a "hard crash site" you might have a clue that what is left in many cases is of little use directly! And the big money accidents get the "big money" investigations! There is always a certain degree of speculation in small GA events that leave little but aluminum strips and the steel parts.
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rawhp1
Bryan Jensen 3
If they really landed mid field, why? Was there some reason they couldn't go around after a bad approach? If a go-around was possible that would have avoided this schmidt storm that's coming for this flight crew. If landing was the only option at least everyone made it out safely.
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rwf1001
Robert Fleming 5
I'm sure all that will come out in the investigation by the F.A.A. and NTSB. Just be grateful all are safe, ok? Just saying!
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linbb
linbb -7
Nice to see people on here making comments or asking questions about an area they have no idea about. Thanks for playing now go back to work.
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DonMc123
DON MCLAIN 2
He forgot to turn left.

Glad everyone was safe.
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kerimparrot
Mike Williams 1
He must have been born with the left turn instinct. Why do things right. Bad joke. I'm right-handed and get my shots on my left arm including the vampire's area. Doctors like my blood.

And I agree that everyone was safe.
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Cansojr
Cansojr 2
He escaped a very serious bogie and lives to race again. The photos reveal just how lucky they are to escape a serious tragedy. I'm glad he escaped relatively well with the jangling his nerves. Aircraft can be be replaced or repaired. We humans don't have that luxury. Afterall, we are pretty fragile compared to the forces in aviation.
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rwf1001
Robert Fleming 4
um...he retired as a driver 2 years ago.
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nasdisco
Chris B 2
Race again????

Guess you hadn't notice that he retired a year or two ago, and now does TV commentary.

Nascar driver Dale Earnhardt survives plane crash in US https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49366222
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jbsimms
James Simms 3
Dale, Jr is scheduled to run the Xfinity race @ Darlington 31 August 2019.
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rwf1001
Robert Fleming 2
not looking like that'll happen now.
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Terria1
Terri Santo 1
I don't understand why we can't be kinder to each other. Not everyone follows the lives of sports figures.
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sgbelverta
sharon bias 1
Blip on a news article I saw says the NTSB has video of the entire approach, landing (both of them) and crash. It hasn't been released. It's in addition to all of the on-lookers cell phone video. That's why the NTSB made such a firm announcement of basic information regarding the crash so quickly. It will take the NTSB time to figure out the why.
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patpylot
patrick baker 1
WITH THE alternative runways within short flying time, plus real alternates, and his fuel status; the pilots did not have to try that approach at that time, and if someone was late for some apppointment, tough luck, but the incident ought to have been avoided. easy from the cheap seats, but look at the vfr chart and see what better runways are close by.
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bentwing60
bentwing60 1
So, here is a very good site to bug with some probably previously published, but revealing pics. of the aftermath of Jrs. runway excursion.

http://www.kathrynsreport.com/2019/08/cessna-680a-citation-latitude-n8jr.html

The net net of this event is Laima, the Latvian deity of "good fortune" and the name of my sailboat! A well traveled C320. Nobody else gets it.

Had the left main collapsed, as opposed to the right, the door would have likely been blocked from opening and the chain link fence slid till the left powerplant stopped it. No door blockage. The airframe integrity was such that even after all that, the door still opened! The fire started while they could and were on the way out from the only way out. Apparently the right wing had already caught fire. With a lot of fuel on board for a twenty minute flight into a short obstructed runway. It was burning in the drainage culvert! The NTSB hasn't even released the supposed video of the 2 (two) bounces somewhere on the runway. So much for my non NTSB observations.

So, siriusloon, be sure to post the final NTSB report for this accident on this site as some of the old timers have after extensive discussions a year or two before other accident reports were released. We might all be surprised how the narrative seems so oddly familiar.

And heaven forbid, some one might learn something from those old pro observations that they read about here as opposed to a final NTSB report that they never read.
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AltonD
AltonD 1
NTSB presser

https://www.facebook.com/abc3340/videos/511804326058929/
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ByronPalmer
Byron Palmer 1
NTSB ;prelininary report released today: https://www.scribd.com/document/422938295/Dale-Earnhardt-Jr-Plane-Crash-Report#from_embed
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bbabis
bbabis 1
Interesting reading Bryon but the surveillance video and CVR will tell the rest of the story as Mr. Harvey used to say.
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bentwing60
bentwing60 2
The Gwhiz 5000 avionics and the final report will tell the rest of the story Bill, and the prelim's always state that they may contain inaccuracies that will be corrected in the final report. The panel and avionics bay were evidently uncorrupted, thus, will reveal most of what would have been revealed by a nonexistent FDR. 9 pax seats. When the final story comes out, in a year or two, it might read Somethin about no flight plan filed with a reported ceiling at the destination, maybe ref and 20 over the fence, enough fuel for three trips and three bounces that a basic cfi would not countenance. The part that I can't comprehend is two ATPs with a combined 16,000 TT and time in the airplane and experience at this airport doin that. The ashes and the rest speak for themselves. They did it.

Here is one we discussed at length and the final report is pretty much a match for the early speculation of us morons who spoke out before the final report.

https://www.planeandpilotmag.com/article/hawker-crash-chain-culpability/#.XWBLPEd7m00
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bbabis
bbabis 1
Thanks for the article on the Hawker bentwing. It does back up our early "thoughts." As far as the Earnhardt crash, I'm still not sure that excess speed was involved. Too much speed rarely results in a hard landing but certainly a long landing. Coming in steep and slow like that runway might entice a crew to do, and trying to round out a little high because of the decent rate is excessive usually sets up a big splat that could cause damage and send the aircraft out of control and basically bouncing down the runway due to lack of aerodynamic control. The overrun was due to the power of the attempted go around after the second severe bounce. Just MTCW.
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meshawfly
CRAIG MESHAW 1
I wonder why the hard landing?
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rawhp1
Bryan Jensen 3
If you try to force an airplane onto the ground it usually results in bouncing/porpoising. It's difficult to believe a crew qualified to operate that airplane would force it to land instead of executing a go-around.
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bbabis
bbabis 1
Worried about runway length and approach environment, get too slow, drop it in. Just a guess.
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Glang49
Graeme Lang 1
It almost looked like a Sovereign Plus.
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patpylot
patrick baker 1
the aircraft is toast and the passengers and pilots were blessedly not toast. That pile off the runway barely remembles a lear jet, all burned up and twisted and tangled. Wonder what speed the pilots carried over the end of the runway?? any landing you can walk away from, however, is a good one.Glad the one and only living dale earnhardt is well. I like him
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asellitto
A Sellitto 1
NTSB plane bounced twice hard https://www.tmz.com/2019/08/16/dale-earnhardt-jr-plane-crash-tennessee/
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ByronPalmer
Byron Palmer 1
NTSB issued a preliminary report on the crash today. https://www.scribd.com/document/422936870/Elizabethton-Plane-Crash-Prelim-Report#from_embed
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sparkie624
sparkie624 1
Lucky on that one!
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afcjr1201
Allen Churchwell 4
Sure was sparkie, landed midfield 2600 feet remaining??? These pilots may find it hard to get hired in the future, that 680 is a very expensive plane. 5000'elevation1550' and reported landing midfield.
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bentwing60
bentwing60 2
And, supposedly with 6000#'s of fuel aboard.
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afcjr1201
Allen Churchwell 5
Ya, As you probably know we have had several of these overruns in business jets over the last few years. You would think that two pilots qualified to fly a Cessna latitude would know when to abort an approach that most likely was not stabilized.
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bentwing60
bentwing60 2
They worked for Jr., not Sr., biggg difference!
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AltonD
AltonD 2
Airnav has the runway @ 4529’ length.
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ByronPalmer
Byron Palmer 4
It was extended to 5,000 feet almost 2 years ago. FlightAware still has it at 4629 also. Employees at the airport, as well as myself, have notified them.
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AltonD
AltonD 2
Even the NTSB is behind on the runway length.
https://www.facebook.com/abc3340/videos/511804326058929/
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bentwing60
bentwing60 1
These sites draw their data from government sources! and you would think they are infallible, How?
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AltonD
AltonD 1
Thanks fo the update. I just saw that and was about to delete my comment. Did they cut down the trees to remove the 500’ displaced threshold?
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gsmith4151
harold smith 1
The runway has a displaced threshold on 24. Only 4100 remaining
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prevatt3
Clarence Prevatt 0
I wonder what the density altitude was. That could be a factor.
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wmr350
Mark Ryalls 1
Remember, you can always go around.
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bbabis
bbabis 1
Just can't get good help now days.
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iflyrjs
terry gersdorf 1
Did anyone see the chain link fence wrapped around the fuselage imagine if it was at the door
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bbabis
bbabis 1
When you're on fire you can do amazing things. While it would have been an additional obstacle, that door would have opened!

Now, if the aircraft had rolled a little more to the left as it came to a stop...that's a different story.
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watkinssusan
mary susan watkins 1
I saw this on the news..the plane was obviously in very bad shape and broken apart..the news last night said he was not the pilot of the aircraft, and he was lying on the ground when rescuers arrived..glad all are ok...
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jacktextor
Jack Textor 0
Is there a tower communication posted anywhere yet?
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ByronPalmer
Byron Palmer 4
There is no tower at the Elizabethton airport.
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jacktextor
Jack Textor 1
Thanks!
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linbb
linbb -5
Why? Would not make a bit of difference you had two idiots sitting up front in the pointy end screwing the pooch. Sit and watch runway getting shorter is not the way to fly and yes am a pilot. They were of the quality that kills people in airplanes due to there stupid actions or inactions take a pick.
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JeffDickinson
JeffDickinson 0
How long was the Yellow flag out before they started landing again??
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krschneider
Karl Schneider -1
I dislike blaming pilots but this one can not possibly be anything other than pilot error. (PFU). I've had plenty co-pilots who couldn't even drive the damn airplane. These juvenile button pushers have no idea what airmanship is nowadays.
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CHQpilot81
Byron MacRae 1
...yeah. This is not the case. I would be careful with Stereotypes.
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coltonfletcher
Colton Fletcher 0
wasn't he the guy who was in Dude Perfect's "Driving Stereotypes"?
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kzierhut
kzierhut 4
The runway at KTRI/Tri-Cities is a lot better choice but it is 8000 feet long. The 0A9 (Elizabethton) runway is A/FD at 4500 ft but a NOTAM says they added 500 to get 5010 feet. There is no excuse there for a bad landing.
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cgpd305
Mike Dalton -2
There was a 10,000 foot runway available at Tri-Cities airport which is closer to the Bristol raceway. If memory serves me correct the Lear 60 has a landing distance of 4250 feet. The Elizabethon, TN airport I believe is 4500 feet. I'm very glad all were safe and basically uninjured, however , I think there was some bad decision making.
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BWhaler
BWhaler 8
Wasn't a Learjet 60, was a Citation Latitude, BIG difference in runway requirements between the two jets!
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linbb
linbb -1
Well at least he didn't reference a piper cub in his question or statement. Since a Lear is not really a current popular AC any more kind of see what the guy knows about AC anyway.
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btweston
btweston 1
Where are you from?
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cgpd305
Mike Dalton 1
Middlesboro, Bell County Ky. ( 1A6 )
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cgpd305
Mike Dalton 1
Sorry guys, the local TV station reported that the airplane was a Lear 60, so I framed my comments upon their statements. BTW, I know quite a lot about aircraft.
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bentwing60
bentwing60 2
Yea, but you don't know much about the media apparently, cause to their "food editor", aviation reporter everything is either a Piper Cub or a Learjet. If you understand why I typed Learjet that way, you might have a type rating in one! And until lately, one was all you needed. That airport in a Lear 24 would have been fun, in a Latitude it oughta be a no brainer!
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bbabis
bbabis 1
I hear ya bentwing but it depends on what wing is on the Lear 24. The Mark II wing made it a puppy. I could easily get down and stopped in 2500' with no reverse. As you know, takeoff was no problem either. It would literally blow itself off the ground with that wing. I really miss it.
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bentwing60
bentwing60 1
Did you put the gear down? The best wing was good for about 8 knts. on the base ref on a 20 series, and Not very forgiving. What S.N. did you fly the most? ???
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bbabis
bbabis 1
S.N. 301. It was an E converted back to a D by adding the fuselage tank back. This is an older pic I think but it hasn't changed, externally anyway, from when I flew it. Even the N# is the same.

https://flightaware.com/photos/view/979006-530891a96c50541787bef799aa070e1c5f5616f5/aircrafttype/LJ24

The only other 20 series I flew was a 25F with the Century wing and it didn't handle nearly as well but still had the performance.
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[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

afcjr1201
Allen Churchwell -1
New information that the right landing gear collapsed on initial touch down and then the jet bounced twice after the collapse right gear, which makes sense with the qualifications and experience of both pilots
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redmdz
Mike Ziemann 2
It's a little bit of a "chicken or the egg" type question. Did the plane bounce because the gear collapsed, or did the gear collapse because the landing was so hard that it also caused the bounce(s)? I heard what you're saying on the news too, but they played all of about a 2 second soundbite from a former investigator, and I have very little faith in the media to trust that their soundbite accurately captured the full intended message of that man's statement. Thankfully, rather than us all coming up with our own conclusions online, we will eventually get a detailed NTSB report that will tell us what actually did (or did not) cause the accident.
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