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Boeing risks missing Air Force One 2024 deadline due to legal, production issues

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The new Air Force One planes face the possibility of missing their 2024 deadline as Boeing faces a number of issues, including a legal dispute, production issues and a loss over the past year. The U.S. government started the process to build new planes to replace the president’s airplane during the Trump administration, acquiring two unused 747s from Boeing to serve as the foundation for the new designs. The last time the president’s airplane received an update was more than 30 years ago, when… (www.foxbusiness.com) 기타...

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rgaviator
Ro Gal 19
Let's call a spade a spade. Boeing has some serious issues in both its commercial and military business. From production delivery to cost overruns. Are they entirely at fault...no, but they could avoid many problems with better upper management and a cohesive BOD. Neither which are changing for the better.
mohenley
Mark Henley 9
Ever since Boeing acquired MacDac (and I still can't figure out why you'd acquire a company and then let THEIR senior management take over...) "The Boeing Company" has been going downhill.
rowettd
Dale Rowett 6
Exactly. I still recalll listening to this radio program on the way home from work. It paints a pretty dismal picture of the corporate culture at Boeing. It points the finger directly at the executives imported from McDonnell and their shoddy "good enough" approach to aircraft design and production. https://www.wbur.org/onpoint/2020/01/14/for-boeing-a-new-ceo-and-the-same-unresolved-issues
mohenley
Mark Henley 3
Yep - you are right on target.
pagheca
pagheca 2
you forgot space business...
ljcotnoir
Leo Cotnoir 2
The consolidation of the aerospace and defense industry has been a disaster for American taxpayers. How Boeing and LockMart avoid being charged with illegal restraint of trade escapes me.
EtienneDaniels
Should happen to many companies that are run by shareholders (money and greed), Ceo's and accountants. It is time that craftsman and entrepreneurs are allowed to run their business adain, with the help of an accountant of course :)
21voyageur
Only way that would happen would be via an employee buy-out and that will not happen any time soon. Boeing is in a dark corner right about now and it will take a decade (or more) to ever pull itself out. Unfortunately, this is not about aircraft, , , , its about money.
jeliop
So, communism. No, thanks.
tbpera
tbpera 6
another Boeing Hiccup?
jmilleratp
jmilleratp 9
If you're using Boeing for anything involving taxpayer money, you know that it's going to take FOREVER to get something done. And, it's going to cost WAY more than they initially told you it would be. Look at the Boeing Starliner space capsule. Still hasn't flown with passengers, while SpaceX has had two successful launches to the Space Station with crew. At far less cost.
Quirkyfrog
It's called 'cost plus' contracting. Yeah, it's almost made to take longer and cost more.
upchucked
I am beginning to think that Boeing is trying to damage their name to the point where it becomes inevitable that another company will buy them, perhaps to just break it up into little pieces, as Gordon Gekko would do; or perhaps to expand their own production capabilities. I am not pointing a finger at Airbus, nor at COMAC, but they would be the two largest bidders, should it come to that.

Perhaps Boeing is trying to prove the validity that they can lose money on every model, every contract, every production, and make it up in volume ..... and, the worst part is that they may be close to proving it, at least as long as the government is around to give them grants, non-repayable loans and the like......
jmilleratp
jmilleratp 15
Boeing has decided that it will do ANYTHING to save a few bucks, then have that blow up in their faces. Two planeloads of dead bodies because they wanted to save some money by going with lower-skill programmers for the MAX. The Starliner space capsule is way behind. Now, Air Force One.
Quirkyfrog
Maytag did that. They had a long string of really bad products, and eventually screwed up enough, they couldn't hide the damage any longer, and were sold.

I ended up with one of their ranges that would turn itself on to self-clean, and just run for hours. Also their Neptune mold delivery devices. Sure loved the Maytag brand after all that. Had a fridge that was just outside their recall serial number range, die.

That fridge wanted to die, and apparently so did Maytag. Such a damned shame. They were the best brand for so long, and then, PFFFTTT...
JosephDreitler
Yes, and Maytag started outsourcing to China and amazingly, the quality went down but profits went up - short term. MacD was assembling aircraft in China in the early to mid 1990’s - to get Chinese business and increase profits. When Wall Street cheered Boeing buying them, you think any analyst gave 2 cents about the quality of products going to be produced in 10 years? As a country there is a reason we are short term thinkers and China plays the long game. Management gets rewarded for profits NOW. No one cares what happens in 5 years now.
21voyageur
I sense that Boeing's board and executive management believe that they are "too big to fail" and are taking any and all liberties that go along with that mindset. As for Airbus or COMAC, two points: why buy when you can let them fail? And any purchase from a foreign-based company would be unlikely for political reasons. Especially in the case of COMAC for obvious political reasons. Anyway my 2 cents worth.
gretair
RG GR 1
We lost competitive advantage the moment the SEC allowed Boeing to purchase DAC.
JosephDreitler
When the Board of a company built on manufacturing and engineering superiority dumps that Management and replaces them with accounting and financial operators who care not about product quality, but only cutting costs, increasing both profits and stock price, this is what you get. It’s no surprise.
gomedoc
lack of real domestic competition and the promise of almost endless guarenteed taxpayers money....bad combo
pcaronlpcaron
Phil Caron 9
Boeing as predicted is going down as evidenced by their CEO taking a 25M salary from a company that is losing money and dropping sales at a rapid pace. This CEO has the same attitude as the previous one, take as much as you can before the house of cards tumbles. The same goes for the Chicago based elite using this term loosely. It is a shame for the loyal employees who in the end will lose what they've invested in Boeing. By the time Chicago management is done, the company will not be worth anything for Airbus or COMAC to consider acquiring.
Quirkyfrog
Consider the source. Fox Business couldn't find the truth with both hands, a flashlight, a seeing eye dog, and hope in hell.

What I found amazing is that the existing Air Force One's (VC's) had all of their wiring replaced because the insulation was flaky. Interesting, isn't it. We the people got to fly around in massive planes with defective wiring, and also got to pay to replace that same wiring in the president's planes so he didn't have to worry about dying. It's nice to be the king?

They should have renovated a 757 instead? Love that plane...
emkostiuk
emkostiuk 9
Gentleman, please let's get back to Airplane talk rather than politics.
21voyageur
But this is not about aircraft, it is about money, greed, and poor management that just happens to involve a company that makes point aluminum tubes that fly. Engines are, in effect another, yet complementary, world.
Franky16
Franky16 5
Slightly off topic, but when serving in the US in 77-79, I had the pleasure to be able to visit AAFB in a group of foreign NCOs, and one of the highlights was being able to board AF2, a B707. AF1, a B747 was enclosed in a separate compound with a troop of Marines on guard around the perimeter. We were told that AF2 was the former AF1 from the Kennedy era, and was the aircraft that LBJ was was sworn in on whilst transiting back to DC.
md69
The 747 (VC25) wasn't around in 1979. It wasn't delivered until August 1990: https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b747-23824.htm

The second VC25 wasn't delivered until December 1990: https://www.airfleets.net/ficheapp/plane-b747-23825.htm
darjr26
darjr26 2
I’m still surprised that Boeing, after acquiring so many other companies, still feels the need to subcontract out so much of their work. It doesn’t seem to be working out too well for them.
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 3
"The new Air Force One planes face the possibility of missing their 2024 deadline"

Everyone please forgive me if I wait until it actually happens to freak the hell out.
wfmihok
They should be using the B-787-9 Dream liner for AF-1, not old technology!
Propwash122
Well, yes to the 787-9, but perhaps the Air Force is not there yet on ETOPS for the President. Besides, the 747-8i is not really old technology compared to the 747-200 now used as AF1.
21voyageur
Dan Chiasson -1
But for Americans, it seems that bigger always appears to be better when it comes to pomp and ceremony. My toy has to be bigger, shinier, faster than yours mindset.
joelwiley
joel wiley 1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aC5h4Uzciys
GeorgeHall
George Hall -1
Boeing is letting die this countries' pioneer days of commercial flight. The DC-3. They should honor the inception of commercial airline flight back in the 30's.
lynx318
lynx318 1
A one off circumstance like Covid is of course going to mess up production deadlines, for company management to not adapt to the situation is what is wrong here.
bristolgeoff
Will not look good for the company but the us goverment will not give them a hard time
jacqwayne
jacqwayne 1
My guess is they will miss the deadline because they decided to replace the stairs with an escalator. And Boeing didn't buy McDonald. It was McDonald who bought Boeing...with Boeings money.
Jaime1949
a way to jack up the price of the aircraft
Binkster87
Boeing....Pay Attention to Details!! Excuses Begone!!! Effective management creates solutions for a successful resolve. Eliminate internal Politics enabling smoother efficiency. Would suggest you get on your Knees if not already. You could use real Help Boeing...and Now. Many Stockholders and families are counting on Boeing to get it right!!
21voyageur
Unfortunately, it appears that Boeing is, to borrow a medical slang, circling the drain
tomasz2013
737 MAX check
737 NG check
787 check
KC46 check
Orion check
AF1 check

The only models Boeing hasnt screwed up lately are the toy models in their offices.
sheepshagger99
Come on man, it needs to be redesigned to have full wheelchair facilities, padded walls, wheel-in wet-floor shower, rubber "moving footpath" floor, malarkey room, elevator, and a "where I left my..." whiteboard
JMARTINSON
JMARTINSON 0
You "wheel-in wet-floor shower" guys and your inside jokes...

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

patpylot
patrick baker -2
too insipid to even frame a reply too.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

djames225
djames225 19
This is an aviation forum, not a forum for you to spew off your political views.
There are forums out there that allow that, SO TAKE IT THERE!
KennyFlys
Ken Lane 2
Funny. Yet, some 75% of those now on this forum respond with political attacks on others.

It's not the pilot or true aviation enthusiast forum it once was when it started. I've been here from nearly the start. In the last four years alone, it's become quite pathetic.
joelwiley
joel wiley 2
It seems to me that releasing the flightfeeder software for the raspberry pi created an opportunity to attract a very different clientele that was active on the board prior to that. A significant portion of that new group may or may not know the difference between VFR & IFR

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

mariofer
mariofer 5
I am Republican and quite frankly, the only one barking here is you. Whether someone supports or despises Trump, your first comment is the same unnecessary and vile rhetoric we accuse the other side of doing, the same rhetoric that will prevent good Republicans, and Democrats from that matter, to hold office and do something productive.
djames225
djames225 5
No the building of the Presidential aircraft is NOT politics and aviation, at least not in this thread. This topic at hand, is about the building of an aircraft, and IS about aviation.
No one is controlling topic speech but "Typical of the woke leftists that support a senile old man that is not even aware that party operatives stole the election." is not about aviation, the building of an aircraft, or even on topic! It is your political OFF TOPIC views.
It appears you are the only 1 not interested, and I did leave my opinion already! "This is an aviation forum, not a forum for you to spew off your political views."
KennyFlys
Ken Lane -5
I believe Trump's mandate that the price would come down if Boeing wanted the contract made it more than political. I'm pretty sure Biden wouldn't even care. It's not his money.
SorenTwin
SorenTwin 2
"We"? You're speaking for yourself. I see no one here supporting your imaginative rant.
Quirkyfrog
Trump LOST! Bush I LOST! So many presidents LOST their chances to be reelected.

The BIG LIE is that America wanted Trump to be president for 4 more horrific years.
21voyageur
Wow, , , if this thread is now focused on Trump, it truly has landed in the gutter.
GeorgeHall
George Hall -2
Yes, this lib ROBERT COWLING aspires this country be radically changed to socialism or better yet communism. May I remind all you on the left that socialism DOES NOT WORK ! During Trump's 4 short years, the economy was booming, unemployment was below 2% and the interest rates took a nosedive. Is that REALLY horrific ? Biden is undoing all that positive progress. Why ? They aspire to CONTROL American lives on a daily basis. They think the American people are stupid and gullible.
markaharris
Mark Harris -3
And by the same margin that Trump "stole" the election in 2016 - funny that.
ghines11
Gary Hines -1
The plane should have been built ground up as Air Force One. Modifying already built planes is ridiculous.
ADXbear
ADXbear -1
Shameful, of course there is always plenty of A380s.. yuk

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Moviela
That is just wrong. Boeing is 62% owned by institutional investors. The largest holders are Vanguard, Blackrock, and Newport Trust Co.
joelwiley
joel wiley 6
You quote facts. Trentenjet doesn't know what those are.
Quirkyfrog
trentenjet: Crawl back under your rock. Please. We promise to not bump it in the future...
Quirkyfrog
But we have to forgive trentenjet. They only believe what they hear on social media, and the slum sites at that.

The Rothschilds has been a buzzword for antisemitic attacks on Jews for decades. The Jews don't own the world. Go back to sleep trentenjet. Seriously. Finding out that the Murdochs own the world and want to crash it into a wall is really going to freak you out, for sure. Them, the Kochs, etc...
lynx318
lynx318 1
Bury the rock.

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