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FAA finalizes rule for secondary cockpit barriers on new passenger planes

The US Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) has enacted a regulation necessitating "secondary" cockpit barriers in new passenger planes, an effort to more effectively deter passengers from breaching the cockpit. ( More...

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Ron Slater 12
22 years later? Is it any wonder when I get a letter from the FAA for my SIA it looks like it was written using a 1950's typewriter? They move at the speed of stink!
Greg S 8
I believe that even having an impenetrable cockpit door is questionable. Every potential safety improvement is normally subjected to analysis of the tradeoffs involved. But not breaching the cockpit door, because terrorism causes people to become irrational. Since the impenetrable cockpit door has been implemented there have been two (possibly three considering the recent China Airlines crash) commercial pilot murder-suicides where the other pilot has desperately tried to get in to save the plane but couldn't. The obvious benefit is that terrorist/lunatics cannot get in to try and crash the plane. I believe that after 9/11 everybody has evolved their thinking so that passengers will always try to overpower terrorists on a plane, thus that threat is reduced considerably. Actually, that evolution actually happened *on* 9/11 as the passengers on that last plane realized what had happened with the 3 previous planes and went after the terrorists with everything they had. Now since Germanwings there's a two-person-in-the-cockpit rule so perhaps the tradeoff has swung back in favor of an unbreachable cockpit door again. However, in my mind, I see a suicidal pilot planning for the time when the co-pilot gets up and leaves to go to the bathroom while a flight attendant or 3rd pilot starts to enter the cockpit, and during the exchange the suicidal pilot catches them both by surprise and pushes them both out and locks the door.
Edward Bardes 1
That assumes the pilot leaving the cockpit gets up before the third crew member takes a seat.
Duane Mader 12
Prior to 911, protocol was to negotiate with terrorists and usually that worked out. After 911, when faced with terrorists crashing the plane, most if not all passengers will fight back.
srobak 1
As it should be. That situation will never repeat itself.
Ehud Gavron -8
Sheep will always do what sheep do. Bleat loudly and die with blood spurting out.

> most if not all passengers will fight back.

No. Most, if not all passengers will bleat and be ready to be stuck with a knife.

And those few times a passenger does something, they'll be charged with a crime, like the gentleman on the subway that subdued a threat... only now he has to spend a year or more in court hearing and spend money he hasn't raised yet.

When the terrorists rise up, WE should rise up. We should not give them a pulpit, a forum, or pretend they're just poor people who got abused.

Take up arms against me or my family? I'll play fuck fuck.
John Rogers 1
"And those few times a passenger does something, they'll be charged with a crime"

Well, you have to still be alive for that to be a problem, so...
Onward Lam 10
I suppose it is good to have it, but it is sad that we need it.
srobak 8
We don't. How many cockpit breach incidents have there been on planes since 9/11 ?
srobak 4
We don't. How many cockpit breach incidents have there been on planes since 9/11 ?
Highflyer1950 12
Cheaper to put an air Marshall in the jump seat. He goes out first and stops all entry to the forward galley/washroom area., or hell just give the in-flight service manager a taser!
Joe Keifer -7
No can do. Federal Air Marshalls are needed on the southern border.
boughbw 4
Explain this to me. How is an Air Marshall going to protect the southern border?
boughbw 4
I mean, how many of the 9/11 hijackers came across the Southern Border? What if Air Marshalls don't want to be CBP agents? You logic -- I'm being generous -- is akin to taking your car to the veterinarian because your soup was cold.
srobak 4
It doesn't matter what they want. They are federal law enforcement officers and will be required to go where they are assigned and performed the duties that they are assigned to perform. Over 20% of the enforcement present at the southern border are not CBP.
boughbw -2
Or they can quit and take jobs that don't require them to work remote stretches of the border -- often for better pay. But let's pretend they'll just do as they're ordered to satisfy your political agenda.
srobak 2
You've clearly never been a federal employee. Reassignment of location and duty is very common. It's not just in the military.
Dale Ballok 1
Uh, if you were to apply common sense to the post, you’d realize that they’re short on manpower at the border, hence enlisting air marshals!
boughbw -2
You're asking me to apply common sense to a post that contains none. The response is easy enough -- you first.
Nooge 0
The 9/11 hijackers LIV are playing at The Doral this weekend

All it took was a $2 B check to Jared

Is fell off a Turnip Truck Tool Comer workin on that investigation ?
srobak 2
Many federal law enforcement officers have been assigned to babysitting duties at the border. Last estimate was over 20 perfect were not CBP.
Mark Kortum 1
It's a joke son.
Peter McGrath 0
It's not about protecting the southern border, it's this administration's way of putting everyone flying in jeopardy. More fine work by Secretary "BootyJuice" as Biden referred to him the other day!
Nooge -9
Hows that wall wokin?

Booty Juice should use he $25 B The Commander in Cheat got from Mexico to spend on reuniting the families The POSOTUS split up
Alan Glover 3
The border is critical but that particular issue is mostly ground-based.
Send more military there but keep the AM inflight.
Agree on the AM.
Tear gas at border will work like a charm. It’s what we do to citizens when they riot!
Dan Chiasson 2
God Bless America.
God and our forefathers already blessed us. We’re the ones screwing it up.
srobak 1
And we are clearly not doing it enough.
boughbw 1
That's what I concluded on 1/6.
srobak 3
You didn't figure that out in the entire year before that?
Nooge -2
The border is critical but that particular issue is mostly ground-based.

Like a wall ?

Wait didn't Mexico pay us to build a wall?
greg cotten 7
If we look back at the first 747s, many were equipped with a crew lav and bunk area that was separate from the pax, although maybe not a bullet proof door, but an easy design that would allow 1) cockpit crew to eat, sleep, lav all without bothering anyone including ludicrous Flight Attendant cart barriers, provide for FA lav such that they are not waiting in line when they have more important things to do, serve as the cockpit secondary barrier.

You might lose one row of revenue seats, but it would simplify a lot of things
dkenna 1
Woah woah woah…. Lose a row of revenue generating seats???? Hell will freeze over before any of these greedy bean counters will allow that to happen. Cattle class is fighting for an extra inch of legroom, nevermind an entire row being removed. I say this as I’m sitting in IAH, waiting to board a Emb145. Ugggh. I hate the 145
Don Reilly 3
This appears to be a solution in search of a problem.
Ken Lane 2
This seems to be an insanely expensive requirement for a problem that has not existed since 9/11.

Next, they'll require an isolated lavatory for the flight crew and a little, interlocked pass-through for food and drinks.

That will be followed by crew rest areas also isolated from any passenger access. The first twenty foot of an airliner will be strictly for the flight crew and their safety. Of course, it will also be required for any foreign carrier coming into US airspace with the cost added to passenger fares around the world.

My suggestion would be much cheaper over the life of the aircraft, including construction costs.... Place a couple ex-special forces guys fore and aft in the cabin armed with an MP5 and a Glock 19.

You won't even need air marshals whom have proven to be idiots like the one who recently showed off his firearm to a flight attendant prompting an emergency declaration and return to origin.
Michael Osmers 2
You think the upgraded door is more expensive than your idea? The revenue loss you propose is staggering! And then you suggest two MORE lost seats? Wow. To people armed with an MP5? That’s a MACHINE GUN, you have any idea what that could do to a pressurized fuselage? Wow.
Cary McDonald -5
An even cheaper alternative. We know who the terrorists and criminals's just give them a free 9MM bullet to the forehead (35 cents each). Then, make Soylent Green out of them and feed it to prisoners. We save money all around and the world is a safer place. Oops, am I being politically incorrect?
boughbw 9
All of the 9/11 hijackers were in the US legally. Tell me again how this great plan of pre-emptively murdering people you think are terrorists will be such a good one if actual signs of criminal activity aren't required. Just look at their color? In your case, the "politically" in "politically incorrect" should just be dropped.
Tom Campbell 2
You havent bought any ammo lately, no ammo available less than a buck each
srobak 2
Yes. But politically incorrect is fine with most. Lol
WD Rseven 1
"The pilot union ALPA (Air Line Pilots Association) supports the rule, calling the requirement "long overdue"", they said while looking for a way to make money from it.
John Taylor 1
Look at it this way, the more added weight they put in the aircraft makes for fewer passengers they can carry which means a little more breathing room. Hell, at some point they may actually have to remove one whole seat from planes and then maybe two. Good times.
Dale Johnson 1
Just curious, flight crews know when they have a doctor onboard I believe. Do flight crews know when there is an air marshal onboard?
srobak 2
Yes. It's indicated on the manifest.
Martin Dennett 1
I've been receiving weekly mails for longer than I care to remember. I've made some comments, upvoted some comments and downvoted some comments. But I'm going to post a phrase here now that is very relevant that I use on a social media platform: Tell me you're American without telling me you're American.

8 billion people on this flat Earth </s>. 7.7 billion are not Americans. I despair. No wonder America is the most hated country on the planet.

Downvote this all you like. Make any comment you like. I won't see it because I'm unsubscribing from the weekly newsletter. I'm sitting watching the grass growing with one eye and watching the paint dry with the other.
lakemountain 1
What a pointless exercise. Have there been any flight deck compromises since 9/11?

In addition to the current hardening, passengers are now pre-screened, ID's are checked, random sky marshals, very stringent scanning technologies and restrictions regarding what can be taken in carryon. Additionally, passengers are far more likely to intervene. Who knows what other less visible measures exist.

There comes a point of diminishing returns to prevent a plane being controlled.
Doug Parker 1
I know we can address “the thing” that's in front of us, and addressing it addresses “that thing” and everything that comes after it, but how come nobody is talking about (the elephant in the room which is) what were those things that came EEFORE “the thing,” which caused us to have to address “the thing” in the first place?

• The breakdown of “not breaching the cockpit”
• The mental health of those breaching the cockpit
• The cultural standards in place that are being overlooked that contribute to more and more angry people who don't have mental awareness nor psychological tools to address their unstable mental states

It's hard to explain, and hard to grasp if you're trying to read this and grasp the point I'm trying to make, but difficulty in crafting its expression is not a reason to abandon trying to explain it and manifest its explanation.
John Brooks 1
It is about time. What are they thinking up there?
srobak 1
About time for what? How many cockpit breach incidents have there been on planes since 9/11 ?
John Taylor 1
Back when it was just men piloting the aircraft, they could have just issued box lunches to the cockpit crew and water bottles to piss in like the good old days as a fighter jock. Give 'em their supplies and seal the door.

P.S. For those of you without a sense of humor, it's a joke.
sparkie624 1
That is going to be interesting...
How about a cockpit that has no interior entrance at all that the pilots from the outside enter through a trap door at the top..
rwojcinski 2
Might be a problem when there is a need for a restroom
Mike Mohle 2
Had relief tubes in a couple of Kings Airs, loved um!
John Taylor 1
Are you kidding? Make the glamor boys (and girls) have to work to get into the plane? You obviously were never an enlisted flying ground crew member on a heavy in the USAF.
linbb -7
A little late
victorbravo77 8
Better late than never, linbb.
srobak 4
Why do you say that? How many cockpit breaches have you heard of since 9/11?


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