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Fliers’ vs. Airlines’ Rights

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Airlines have long been able to remove disruptive passengers from their airplanes. But while in the past only fellow travelers knew what had happened, now social media exposes these disputes to a worldwide audience. (www.nytimes.com) 기타...

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overtime111
The only right passengers should have is to get from point A to point B safely they don't have any special right in a grocery store or a gas station what makes them think they have any special rights on an airplane.
preacher1
@Alistair: alluding to my earlier comment, I have no problem with people exercising their rights to do this or that.Problem is that they seem to think they are the only one that has any rights and fail to take into consideration the fact that other people have the same rights and that they may be infringing on them. That goes to your "driving" that you mention here and many other things as well. The list is very long and it don't take much to see who was raised halfway decent and who was not. Problem is, us old schoolers are getting fewer in number my friend.lol
northrop
northrop 0
This reminds me of back in high school one of my friends cussed any time he felt like it. And when someone asked him to be quiet he would scream " Its my first ammendment right". Now that he is grown up a few years (10). He now has 2 daughters of his own 4 and 6 and barks at any punk who cuss infront of them. I kind of wonder if the people pulled off the flights one day when they get old and wrinkley will feel the same they did on the day they were pulled from a flight. Or will they see the way that acted as childish.
WALLACE24
My biggest concern is getting stuck on the ground for hours inside the plane. Regardless of the reason there ought to be a hard time that they have to let people off if they want off. That includes having a means to deplane even without a gate. I would rather walk a mile in a foot of snow than sit in a plane with piss running down the isles.
As far as people being too big for the seat,too smelly, too under dressed, too drunk,etc. It's their plane and their rules. If you think you get treated unfairly don't use their services. You don't have the same rights in someone else's plane, restaurant, etc. As you do in your own home. Most people fly all their life and never have a problem. Being on a ship or a plane is not a democracy---the captain is gospel, like it or not.
devsfan
98% of us know how to dress and behave on a flight. Well maybe not that high of a percentage.
I believe many are so self centered and so self important that they believe they have an absolute right to anything they please with impunity.
This has lead to increasing amounts of inconsiderate and downright boorish behavior on passenger flight.
I believe the air carriers should absolute authority to grant passage or refuse passage at any time so as long as civil rights of people are not violated.
The baggy pants guy and the dopey chick with the micro mini skirt? Allow them an opportunity to adjust their wardrobe or they can drive to their destination. People who are uncooperative are that way because they believe their rights are more important than those of all others. They have to be shown such is not the case.
mllong
When you get right down to it, it's manners. People don't display manners any more. Look at the rude drivers on the road, in department storesand just about every where. Thanks, Mick
WALLACE24
Right on! If u can't figure out a way to fit in then hitchhike asshole. Airlines might be the last bastion of majority rules.
marxnsparks
People need to remember that once they board an airplane in the US (commercial or otherwise), they are subject to the FARs just as airline crew are. This includes being immediately arrested for any sort of interference with flight crew operations. I wish airlines reminded people of this because if their behavior is any indication of their mental capacity, clearly they are clueless when it comes to the regulations.
PAULHENDERSON
Couldn't agree more. But, there are obnoxious airline employees out there who through poor training or bad personality or a combination of the two will play power trip games way beyond what is necessary for air safety. Or, they will take a snippy comment from a passenger that makes them angry and turn it into a federal case (literally). Flying is a privilege but so is being on an aircrew and that is abused when aitine employees use FARs to push personal agenda.
devsfan
You're sure it's ALWAYS the flight crew or other airline personnel who are wrong 100% of the time. Do us a favor, DRIVE!!!!!
FedExCargoPilot
Agree with comments posted so far, but what about passenger's rights as far as delays? Last few delays I had we were not well informed about progress, and a half hour wait becomes a 4 hour wait. With little room for anybody especially tall and broad people right next to their fellow passenger, what is the limit to keeping people in airplanes? Especially with winter around the corner... I think that limit needs to come down. But for the silly things people do on airplanes, airlines should deal with that with a wooden stick People are on their plane, follow the rules.
n7224e
These are indeed frustrating problems (poor communication, cramped seating), but they need to be addressed through company policies designed for customer satisfaction and safety, not through additional government regulation. Airlines need to either take care of their customers or lose them to the competition.
devsfan
That is an issue for a another time. Separate subject.
upchucked
Well, I am going way out on a limb here but any attractive, scantily clad young lady that would like to fly is more than welcome on my flight, and I will go even further and say that I would appreciate it very much if the flight attendant would seat her next to me. I would even share my blanket with her. Just saying.
preacher1
lol Wes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
skycowboy
Jim Muse 0
Hear, hear!
chicoaggie
Flying is a privilege...not a right.
alistairm
so is driving, but you tell that to all the idiots on the road. people take "freedom" way to far these days.
pnschi
pnschi 0
Right. But airline employees, being human, can get their pride mixed up in a business dispute with a passenger, and end up lying. Now, the passengers have more power to get their side of the story out.
devsfan
IS it your perception passengers are always right and the air carriers should just allow these miscreants to inconvenience everyone else and in the process of exercising their rights get to infringe on the rights of the airline and the other passengers?
mllong
It's all about manners. Look around you, in the stores and on the road, it' me, me,me. Thanks, Mick
wjungerheld
Get the scum off the plane! I'm tired of the nuts having all the rights and the normal people having none. On the ground, I can avoid them, but in that aluminum tube I can't. That first step is a doozy if I try to leave.
Beeskip
Beeskip 0
The events of 9/11 have forever changed airline travel. Passengers need to understand, just because they pay a heafty cost to fly it doesn't give them carte blanch to become disruptive or disrespectful in the airport or on the aircraft itself in any form, shape or fashion.
pnschi
pnschi 0
Is there any injunction against airline employees becoming disrespectful? (Please don't claim that doesn't happen a hundred times a day.)
devsfan
HUH?!!!
crabmann2
I am OK with a "Dress Code" so long it is reasonible (I know reasonible leaves it wide open), but the airlines should make their dress code publicly and readily available. Why wait until the passenger gets on-board to throw them off and cause a rukus. But why is a naked lady with a thong and her breasts hanging out OK on public beaches...?
crabmann2
I am OK with a "Dress Code" (and even a bad smell code) so long it is reasonible (I know reasonible leaves it wide open), but the airlines should make their dress code publicly and readily available. Why wait until the passenger gets on-board to throw them off and cause a rukus. But why is a naked lady with a thong and her breasts hanging out OK on public beaches...?
stevekorbey
I think fliers should have their asses measured in the same way as carry on bags. If ass is too wide keep it out of the cabin.
sdotripley
I appreciate all the lessons in Constitutional law but the system you're supporting is that the flight crew can treat people however they want and if any passenger even eyeballs them, the FC can put them off the plane, costing them hundreds (or even thousands) of dollars. Want to discriminate against Arabs or other browns? No problem! They were a "security risk" or even, "I wasn't comfortable with them on the plane." That, despite the fact they had to through security to get there. It's a little one-sided, let's face it.
devsfan
Really? One sided? Yes it is one sided. There is no "right to passage" on a commercial airline. Period.
Sensible intelligent people know the rules of civilized society. Those rules are set up to protect everyone.
Th idea of catering to the lowest common denominator does not apply to air travel.
crabmann2
Well...I think the ass-width is coming, then get on the scale is coming...then what's next...you got...PAY TOLIETS....yipee
preacher1
One thing noted in here is that people are pushing the limits on what THEY think is alright and what THEY think is within THEIR rights but what THEY fail to realize is that THEIR rights stop when they start infringing on MINE. just sayin'
mhlansdell00
Dress codes, codes of behavior, weight limits, ...I understand the need, but it needs to be clearly stated. I am a 300# male and agree that's pretty big. I had occasion to fly to Fla and Southwest was my obvious choice from where I was. I was concerned about the need to buy an extra seat and so e-mailed the airline. You can't believe the vague answers I received back. Next was a phone call to customer service. I'm amazed I was able to hold my tongue at the STUPID information I was given to a simple question. Now it was getting funny and I was considering a book or short story. Maybe they were just messin' with me. So I physically went to the airport and presented myself at the reservation desk. Trust me when I tell you the folks there are well trained and spotted me immediately as a man with a question and no intention of buying a ticket that day. The youngest and prettiest of the CSRs was dispatched to attack my troubles, like a pretty girl would affect the outcome with an older man. I asked about the policy and she explained it as written on the internet. What a memory. Finally when pressed sh told me the decision would be made by the FAs on board each aircraft at flight time, meaning I suppose, if there was a seat where the over dimensional passenger was not crowding the passenger next to him or her no harm no foul. So if no one was in the tweener seat there was no issue. That's fine said I, but I don't have the money nor time to gamble. Florida is only 700 miles and I can drive it in 11 hours. "I'm here and would like to get pre-qualified". "Do you have a seat like the baggage measuring device to check carry-on size?" Her look made me think I had two heads, but I understood.I went on only because she couldn't make me deplane, couldn't throw me out of the airport and an audience was growing. I knew it was useless but just couldn't help it and my smile was giving me away. I told her I thought the airline should have a sample seat available to allow over dimensional passengers to get "seat qualified" before buying a ticket. I'm sure there was more said but I realized again that the prettiest thing on a women is her smile and it also makes you go deaf. I do remember her saying something like I don't think you'll have a problem before she resumed her ticketing duties. I did not get seat qualified, but flew without incident to my brother's 70th birthday in Florida and returned with an even bigger smile. "You Go Pilots"
devsfan
Itr matters not to me how big a person is. The issue of a person's size comes into play when their girth results in making ME uncomfortable.
Large people on aircraft do not have that right.
SWA's policy of "too big, buy two seats" works for me.
bajajoes
What's really hard to comprehend is how one flt att. will make a call that something is offensive and someone's taken off a flt and then on the next flt NO attndts have any problem!
Where's the justice? I saw this happen with a womans dress and she had to wait for next flt because an attndt didn't like her! She got on the plane and then came off and said what happened. Supervisor did NOT have an issue with her dress!
mhlansdell00
That was my point in the story. I never got seat qualified. The FA on my flight might have had an issue with me and decided I was too big for my seat. If I refuse to pay the 2nd seat charge I will have wasted 3 to 4 hours which would have put me below Richmond Va. had I decided to drive. Further, lately there is a new trend. when did they get the right to keep you on a plane. If the aircraft is delayed at the gate even, you don't have the right to get off? If I try to make my case I might be arrested as disruptive. Where are we going with all this. When did we sign away our rights. I'm not talking about stepping on other peoples toes I'm just talking about deplaning from a sweat box.
Lonewolf1507
The answer you will get is that while a delay is happening the crew are trying to sort out new slot times. Depending on the reason for the delay it could be sorted very quickly, if they then have to reload the passengers they could loose that slot.

On a flight in August from Washington to Boston, we taxied to the end of the runway to be informed due to weather in the Northeast corridor we would be delayed for 1 hour. The cabin crew requested opening cabin service, which the Captain granted but said it would need to cleared quickly. 10 minutes later the Captain came over the intercom and told us we had clearance to go, the cabin crew cleaned the cabin by the time the engines had been restarted. Before we reached the runway our clearance had been revoked and we ended up returning to the holding point for 50 minutes.

Yes this is different from being on the gate, but had we had the engines running we would have taken off 50 minutes earlier. Had passengers been allowed off the plane at the gate certain slot allocations wouldn't be possible.
preacher1
Andrew: if you did a poll, most of the average flying public would not know what a slot time is. They have no conception of what has to happen to get an airplane from point A to B. The departure time is listed as 0900 and the arrival is at 1100 and that is all they know, NOT KNOWING THAT ATC DON'T REALLY GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE ADVERTISED TIME as far as the schedule goes. That inbetween time is all on the pilot. I will give ATC credit for allowing a pilot to make up time, IF THEY SAFELY CAN, but they don't have to.

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