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American and United Airlines to Stand Trial for 9-11 WTC Destruction

American Airlines and United Airlines will face a federal trial for negligence claims when jets owned by the carriers were flown in to the World Trade Center Twin Towers in New York City destroying them. ( 기타...

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AccessAir 22
Really!?!??!? WHo they should be taking to court is the FAA...The FAA is the governing body that allowed the items that were used by the hi-jackers to be taken onto the planes. There was no restriction on a blade under 4 inches to be taken in carry on, on the passenger's person.....I guess they should also take Port Authority NY to court as well As Massport for their neglect in letting the hi-jackers past security.....
Insane... This makes me sick that someone can sue about this. Because American and united said "sure come up to the flight deck and take over" remember people prior to this incident using airplanes as weapons had never happened!
Well, this is America, everyone sues for anything. Gotta curb this lawsuit stuff and get rid of scumbag lawyers, especially the ones that fly Cirruses and are crappy pilots like the one I almost had a midair with a few days ago!!!
Haha yeah, I flew with one guy who thought his aircraft's parachute was a substitute for knowing how to handle any abnormal situation.
That ain't good!
HerrThor 1
haha, best comment of the year bro! Kudos to you that avoided the collision, you avoided also being sued!

[This poster has been suspended.]

It was actually Continental.
??????. Could you enlighten a little further
Which one. Read the accident reports and the U.S. crew was at fault or the U.S carrier was at fault. When you are a declining country, in the eyes of many, you are at fault. We get to play by their rules. ICAO and JAAR OPS are now as big a player as the FAA. Can you say carbon credits?
preacher1 -3
I won't start nothing political but I hope we start waving that fist after November instead of keep on kissing a** and apologizing. The rest of the world can kiss mine. Wonder where they'd be right now if we hadn't rebuilt them after the war. Problem is that we underestimated those people on both sides of the water. We rebuilt them and their industrious nature brought them to where they are today. That same nature is what brought them to power in the first place.
All I know is that if re-elected this administration will really inherit a mess this time. lol
The problem is that we gathered our asses and sat on them. And all the while the plotting whackos didn't.
Agreed. I'm outa here. Early morning coming. Enjoyed the chat.
Well, looking at the size of some asses, no wonder we got big problems...
Collecting money without working grows the biggest asses.
To Preacher1

Concorde was not an economic success. In July 2000 a Concorde at Orly burst and ingested a tire on takeoff. It appeared to fly, streaming flame, probably in ground effect, for several minutes, but did not climb and subsequently crashed into a building. The tire was found to have been torn open by debris from a Continental DC10. Commercial Concorde operations were terminated in October 2003.

Here is part of one of the NY Times' reports of the French liability case :

New York Times December 6, 2010

PARIS — A judge ruled Monday that Continental Airlines and one of its mechanics were guilty of involuntary homicide for their role in the 2000 crash of an Air France Concorde jet outside Paris that killed 113 people and hastened the end of commercial supersonic travel.

The French court ordered Continental to pay civil damages of more than $1.3 million to Air France and a fine of $265,000. The mechanic was fined $2,650 and given a suspended 15-month prison sentence; three other defendants involved in the jet’s design and certification were acquitted.

Continental called the ruling “absurd” and said it would appeal.

A 2002 report by French air accident investigators concluded that a small strip of metal that fell off a Continental DC-10 that took off minutes earlier punctured a tire of the Concorde as it accelerated on the runway on July 25, 2000. The tire disintegrated in seconds, investigators said, sending shards of rubber into the fuel tanks. The plane crashed into a hotel near the airport, flames pouring from its undercarriage.

All 109 passengers and crew members were killed, along with 4 people on the ground.

The court faulted the mechanic, John Taylor, 42, for using titanium, rather than a softer metal like aluminum, to construct a replacement piece called a wear strip for the DC-10. It also accused him of improperly attaching the strip to the aircraft, resulting in it falling onto the runway.
The Concorde departed from Charles de Gaulle, not Orly, and as point of pedantry, "several minutes" was actually 1 minute 59 seconds from brake release to impact (taken from the BEA report, the French equivalent of the NTSB).
Tks, I remember the Concorde crash and subsequent grounding. I had forgotten about all that other and never knew the outcome
Delta grounded the Concorde???
saso792 12
And guess who will pay for this? We will, the flying public. Higher fees from the airlines to pay for the law suit, the settlement and the high dollar attorneys.
The judge should open the trial, find the airlines not guilty, and sanction the lawyers and plaintif of this suit that is offensive to the traditional notions of Ameriacn justice and fair play.
mariofer 9
Then AA and United should sue World Trade Center Properties LLC for obstruction of the airspace. If the towers weren’t there and if they wouldn’t be full of people then the terrorists would not have had two buildings to crash their planes into and kill so many people. Too many individuals willing to make money out of a national tragedy. The only reason these people have not sued God for tornadoes and hurricanes is because God does not have a mailing address. Most ridiculous thing I have ever read.
This disgusts me.
Another example of why f***ing lawyers should not be allowed outdoors by themselves.
I thought BILLIONS of our tax dollars covered all the losses, damage, pain & suffering to all affected.
For some greedy people, even billions are not enough. They're in NY, after all! Expensive to live there and commute to the Hamptons on weekends!!
SootBox 5
Why isn't anyone suing WTC over the deaths of tenants inside on 9/11 for inferior safety design?
The buildings was designed to withstand a 707 impact at low speed - in other words, a plane arriving at or departing from LGA or JFK that strayed. The buildings actually withstood the impacts of the 767s at high speed, it was the burning fuel that weakened the metal and caused the collapses.
Bringing a lawsuit, against AA & UA, is about the most
rediculous thing I have seen so far. Both these arilines
were as much VICTIMS, as those passengers whose lives were
lost, so what else are we going to hear, that each passenger
sued the other?
If there is blame to be placed, it should be levelled at
U.S. Customs,for allowing the Hijackers entry through Logan
Intl. Airport, on "expired student visas". U.S.Customs is
solely responsible for protecting this Country from terrorists.
The Security Manager at the airport was relieved of his duties,
but he was not in charge of U.S.Customs, who had the final responsibility
for clearing incoming passengers. I hope the Judge throws this
frivilous lawsuit into the trash cans, and fines those who bring
such a frivilous lawsuit at all. The Carriers lost more revenue
and lives, than those who are bringing the lawsuit. Enough is enough.
Correct in so many aspects. As long as we continue to allow people to stream across our borders illegaly and not properly vett all incoming foreigners we are subject to attack from within at anytime. Foreigners are NOT citizens and not subject to the same privilage as US citizens, including travel freedoms. Of course liberals won't see it that way. lol
James, I have travelled extensively, and I can tell you from
experience, that "travellers" are not given the same "rights"
as Citizens, in any other Country on the planet, but ours.
I am tired of PC'ers,and watching our Nation cow tow to those
who scream the loudest. If a foreigner wants to live in this
Country, they should be able to either be sponsored, or prove
that they can financially take care of themselves for at least
3 years. If they cannot, then we are not the World's Dog Pound,
that they can just drop themselves off at our doorstep,and expect
a warm bed, and plenty of food for free.
The subject here, is that Terrorists were allowed to enter, just
because they had "student visas" and those were expired.
Had they been detained, and deported by ocean vessel they would
not have had the opportunity, to harm innocent people, but no
one wanted to "offend" them, or their Government, therefore
the WTC was destroyed, thousands of innocent lives were lost,
and no amount of money can replace those innocent people.
Time we took a hard stand at all Airports and Seaports, and while
America Welcomes visitors whose only intent is to visit family, or
vacation, if they are on a watch list, or expired documents, they
must be swiftly removed. As someone else mentioned, our own
airplanes were never used, before against us, so our guard must be
at it's highest level now. Putting them on a vessel, under guard
and sailing them back to their Country, through Piratefilled waters, might
give them the cruise of their lives! Just my humble opinion.
And an opinion I agree with. As the saying goes "wake up America". I welcome any visitor to the US who is here legally and complies with all the laws us citizens must comply with. All others are thieves or worse.
Must be getting old. Up before breakfast, turned a 4 hr drive into 2 1/2, just got in and I am whupped.
Did ya get some flyin done?
Yeah, I'll tell you about it in a minute. I just finally found a Email, private message thing here on FA under diiscussions but I don't know all I need to know about it yet. If I can't figure it out, I'll come back on here.
We kicked the MD around yesterday afternoon, brought the RJ off the ground just about sunrise and stayed up about 1/2 hr. He had an ATR up there that was a dog, and I mean DAWG with a capital D. Sad part is, it turns out that's the one he really wanted. We took off, straight out of the pattern, just turned a long downwind and came back. I don't think we were up more than about 15-20 min. Turns out, though he may want them, he can't think of many folks with the kind of money in their pocket to afford the jet time. The ATR is cheaper operating, will give you a feel for a bigger aircraft and some turbine time as well. I agreed with him on that being so but told him that one wasn't the one he wanted. The Email seems to work but it comes up and says you aren't a recognized member.
Ref that Email, go to discussions and click on the MAIL. Check the setup and all on that page too.
Not getting it
For some reason, it don't let me send it. It says you don't exist as a It piked up several others. I did contact FA so we'll see what's going on.
Told measures..not kidding
Don't laugh too loud. It shows you the same way. I tried to send you one a few ago and couldn't. I still haven't heard back from FA
I am on plenty of lists LOL. Generally persona non grata hahaha...If anything happens I am supposed to go to the UK authority..local embassy..but you are more likely to find me beeging at my local USA reps office...hahaha..
Well Said!
HerrThor 1
False. The terrorists entered the US legally, I heard via Canada. Illegals are necessary for US economy, if they are blocked, then US citizens should start to crop harvests by themselves!
Any judge with sound judgement will say that United and American were victims as well, and ask, in what way did the airlines display negligence that led to crime.
What we need is one with common sense, but they don't elected/appointed.
Appears that World Trade Center Properties, LLC, (An affiliate of Silverstein Properties Inc.), Larry A. Silverstein-President & John (Janno) N. Lieber-Senior VP/Project Director have brought about this idiotic lawsuit. Perhaps its time for the general public to let these misguided individuals know exactly how we feel and if they continue down this path their products and/or services may be avoided. It is our right as American citizens and ultimately the only thing greed understands.
están muy locos si cometen el delito de hacer juicio a la linea !!!! en su defecto que sea al aeropuerto ...
I don't know what this is all about but here is google translate:

are very mad if they commit the crime to prosecute the line!! failing to be at the airport ...
Preacherman, you got a future at the UN as a translator. I could picture you with the big headphones on next to the Swaziland delegate.
LOL. Not me GI!lol
C'mon Preacher, you'd be good. Offical language of Swaziland is English.
I'm not surprised at all. Big money in play. I will say the FAA was about 2 or 3 decades behind the curve on sealing airliner cockpits. Some countries did it in the 60's.
Just FYI, I'm leaving here after while; going to KTUL; gonna hop that mad dog and RJ around tonite and/or tomorrow and see what he has. I'll have my laptop so I'll probably check in late afternoon or evening
Have fun!
It took 102 minutes to change America. Thousands of Americans perished and they will never be forgotten. All of America's pride and honor came to the forefront and fought to keep that honor of being an American alive and to protect our freedom. Don't take the honor, memory or bravery away from the fallen with a frivolous lawsuit that would erase everything that those who perished stood for. The Flight Crews did everything in their power to protect themselves and their passengers. Thus, "throat slitting" boxcutters were used to incapacitate the crew of United 175. As far as the "Twin Towers", United 175, with approx. 8200 gallons of fuel onboard, flew into the South Tower at Full Throttle...speed is questionable...but I heard 512kts. That is 152kts faster than a B-767 is permitted to do. But these murderers didn't need a permit. The force of impact and the explosion blew off the insulation, which protected the steel infrastructure from fire. The now, unprotected steel succumbed to the intense heat and gave way. Therefore, the "Towers' " central core imploded and the tower "pancaked".
It really is sad. This "Lawsuit", which I find ludicris, is all about the almighty dollar and greed and is an insult to those who perished.
Welcome to America!! Home of the don't give 2 shits about you government!
We all know who the owns the real blame. As far as blame within the US it falls squarely on the shoulders of the federal government. They have chosen not to enforce the laws regarding immigration, illegal immigrants, border sovrienty, employment of illegals, deportation , etc. they always cite funding but we know it's all about PC and votes. They didn't have any trouble finding funding for 65,000 TSA EMPLOYEES after the Feds already failed in their responsibilities.
If any body has it, I'd be interested in seeing how big the TSA was when Bush went out vs the 65000 it is now under BHO. I damn sure wouldn't want to start anything political, just curious.
A typical example of our litigenous society. If something bad happens, blame someone and make them pay for it. A few years ago, I was involved in an after-the-fact damage survay of aircraft that were destroyed in severe weather. A freak tornado had come through the area, with little or no warning. I overheard two "suits" from the airline home office in conversation, very seriously discussing, "Who are we going to blame this on?"! I felt like screaming at them, "Can you say 'God'??!!"
I am surprised they did not sue the weather channel for negligence in predicting a freak act of God! In South Florida we have billboards that advertise a website called I laugh everytime I drive by it and think, What has our great country become? I love attorneys!
Oh, now THERE is a website that needs to be hacked!!!
(V)e Same
The only person laughing about this sensative topic, is you!
Thats perfectly fine. After all, it took one person laughing at the emperor's "clothes" to make him realize he was being a fool.
Just shows how insane our legal and court systems have become.It like that have nothing better to do!
I guess it might deny somebody their rights somewhere, somehow, but there ought to be a screening hearing someplace to look at standing and frivolity before some of this crap ever gets to trial and somebody is saddled with the worry of it all that time before it does come to trial.
How about this. When they actually go to court and the judge hears the complaint, he has the power to deem it frivilous. At that point the filing attorney owes all costs involved including the defendants attorney bills.
Sounds like a deal but how far you think that would get, not to mention lawyers on the unemployent line and law scools with plenty of open
I know it's a pipe dream. At some point though the fishing expeditions have to be stopped or slowed. Just like at some point spending will not be able to exceede income.
Well, although rarely exercised, I think a judge has that authority now, but then the defendant has to turn around and sue in order to recover any expense, and then it's not guaranteed.

Regarding the spending and income, whichever pary does it, the correction is going to be like a good dose of SALTS; no fun at all, and it will take years.
Are you kidding...
Going through the comments, it comes to mind that almost 500 years ago Shakespear was right - "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers" - Henry VI, Act IV, Scene II...
Chuck Me 2
All because they decided to underinsure the WTC towers.
And the real kick in the ass is they already got over $4 BILLION in insurance. I blame lawyers...
This has dragged on for years. Yes, the owners of WTC filed another lawsuit.
You got to be kidding!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I just got done reading this story on another site and just shook my head going Seriously? you've got to be kidding me.
While we're at it, why not blame the owners of the WTC for making the towers an easy target? This is painfully stupid and deserves no further comment.
But by that same thought doesn't that make World Trade Center Properties LLC liable as well? Comparatively speaking who's property (plane or building - being misused as an instrument of terror) caused the most death and destruction?
I think (tort) lawyers are more of a threat to civilisation than al-Quaida.
The only safe way to avoid highjacking is to have the ELAL on all planes, e.g., the only access to the cabin is when it's on land at the airport.
jbermo 1
The best defense for c#%p like this, would be for AAL and UAL to recover spent legal $$ costs and expenses (counter sue)from WTCP LLC, when such a case proves frivolous.
John, I'm just focusing on 9/11 and the "Ambulance Chasers"! I understand what you are saying but lawyers are not going away! They want the "Thrill" of the kill...disregarding the lives lost, for ther own gradification and to fill their wallets. We have to concentrate on the present and future and make sure that what we encountered on 9/11....never happens again on our soil.
smoki 1
How did those cretins, the terrorists, get into this country and how did they remain so long, long enough for at least three of them to receive sim training time in 767s? It's been too long for me to recall the details but it seems to me there's got to be some culpability by what is now the DHS, formerly the INS. The pilots paid with their lives in what had to be a horrific death for them. Their families live with that every day of their lives.

Eleven years after the fact? There should be a reasonable time limit on this kind of litigation crap. If they want to sue someone, sue the Muslims that want to build one of their stinking Mosques over the 911 cemetery which is what they always do as a sign of victory/conquest over their enemies, that would be us, the USA. If left up to the American Muslim Brotherhood, i.e. the Obamacrat party, it will happen.
Yes..."AccessAir"... the FAA bailed!
Not to make lite of my last post but what's the name of the Law Firm representing the "World Trade Center Properties LLC"?
Dewey Cheatem & Owe???
HerrThor 1
This is idiocy, the 9-11 was because of those crazy terrorists trying to play flight simulator in real life! AAL and UAL are innocent, the people of UAL 93 even was heroic trying to stop those terrorists!
What are they thinking? The airlines didn't establish the security protocol! This is just another get-rich-quick scheme thought up by a bunch of blood sucking lawyers. They should go after the families of the killers first, then all the mullahs that preached hate to them, and the governments that gave them shelter all their lives. Any honest judge will throw the whole thing out.
I wondered for years before 9/11 when a terrorist group would think of using aircraft as flying weapons. If I could think of it, why didn't the government/FAA/TSA think of it ? Not that I am a big fan of the airlines, but I hardly think they should be held culpable. I'm sure that United's and American's security procedures were in line with the standard practices of the time. I can't imagine they would want their planes hijacked or used as flying bombs. I too place blame on the FAA as the governing body. And seriously, why would they wait 11 years to decide to place blame with the airlines ?
The case was filed in 2005 and they've been at it ever since. WTC is suing for 2.8B, and has collected 4.9B from Ins. AAL/UAL asked the court to throw the case out as they already collected more than the suit claims. Judge said he didn't have power to toss on summary judge, and the tort would need to be resolved at trial.

And somehow the airlines will still point the finger at General Aviation for their problems.
They could also include buses,taxis etc!
JD345 1
This is so frivolous it boggles the mind - what are they going to do next, sue the firemen for not putting out the fire fast enough?
In other news: Owners of apartment block in Amsterdam to sue El Al for allowing one of its cargo 747s to crash into it in 1992 (?) and hotel owner in Gonesse, situated between Charles de Gaulle & Le Bourget near Paris to sue Air France for allowing a Concorde to destroy it on 25th July 2000......
Martin - The pilots of the EL Al 747 did an amazing job to keep the a/c flying with a fuel and cargo load after both no. 3 and no. 4 separated from the wing taking some of the flaps, ailerons and hydralics with them. Think of the asymetric thrust and lift differential. They even attempted a go around. However in the El Al case a suit might have been justified. In addition to the 280 Kg depleted uranium trim weight in the 747 tail, which may have emitted toxic compounds due to the heat from the burning fuel, the a/c was transporting 200 litres of DMMP for the Israeli Biological Warfare facility at Ness Ziona. DMMP is a component of Sarin nerve gas, and has other civilian, petro-chemical uses. There had been no notification of the presence of the DMMP to the emergency personnel or the public during, or for several years after, the incident. The Dutch government stated that the cargo consisted of computer parts, fruit and perfume and included no toxic or hazardous material. In the years following the accident, survivors and emergency personnel reported various disorders, involving chronic fatigue and/or "Gulf War syndrome" and other symtoms, possibly attributable to DU or DMMP. El Al claimed that the DMMP was disclosed on the manifest and the DU was a standard counterweight on some 747s.
DU was used on 707's, 727's, 737-100/200's, and 747-100/200's. Since the 80's, they began using tungsten instead.
Lyndonio 1
"whoops, sorry sir, we didn't mean to crash (very expensive) planes into your nice tower(s) and kill lots of people- honest!"
Insanity strikes again.
At this rate maybe we'll have conspirators come out and sue the government. Who knows?
What low life's, especially since they already got over $4 BILLION in insurance damages already...
Not saying that I think this trial has any merit but... Due to the convoluted way our legal system works, sometimes you have to do absurdly stupid seeming things in order to protect your rights in another direction, and this could be one of those cases. Examples would be a major studio having to sue a young kid for piracy because if they don't they could lose their copyright protection (for not defending the copyright), or having to sue the other driver in an accident, even if they weren't at fault, before your insurance can pay your claim. It's stupid, but it happens.
Zarni52 1
Yet another case of the lawyers get the case started. IF the airlines lose they can file a class action with better chances to win and make millions.
I hope that American and United can win that. Or Delta will become the only legacy airline in US.
Precher1 - Concorde did actually resume operations after modifications to tires, fuel tanks and wiring, but encountered other problems, both powerplant and airframe (window cracks and inflight loss of empennage)issues during 2002. Interestingly in light of the Continental DC10 case there were 4 or 5 reported instances where bonding of the French made rudder failed and sections detached inflight. In March 2003 BA and Air France called it quits.
That lawsuit should be thrown out by any reasonable Judge.
Zarni52 1
If there were reasonable judges pol who spill HOT coffee in their laps would have just been told, " you're an idiot "! Case closed.
Yet AA just kicked off a family with a handicap son --that UAL accepted !
Yes - I agree that when you fly passengers - you are responsible.
And yes again - the fees here will be passed along to the consumers
in the skies. Enjoy your day - be safe up there!
Thank you.
(v)e Same -1
Man, somehow I never quite realized how many raging right wingers there are on this site now a days.. Kinda sad to see so many spending so much energy blaming obama when both parties are pretty much on par with one another as they've always been. IE. a load of crap.... Still, this story makes me laugh. I mean, if the french can sue CO for the concord, are we that shocked someone is sueing AA and UA over this crap? As Toby Keith says, "Gotta love this american ride".
"blaming Obama" ? Only for the government failures since 2009. He owns those. He too has done nothing about illegals, the border, TSA overkill, etc. Our federal government is out of bounds and failing to do their job in so many areas and it's all his at this point in time. You don't have to be a right winger to see the failures.
As I said before, they are both pretty much a joke these days... I'd personally say they are simply flip sides of the same coin.
What a pile of crap. Where was TSA?
On 9 1 1 there was no TSA
Oh yah, you mean back when taking a flight could actually be fairly enjoyable :-)
Yeah, like it was this afternoon, just walk out to that mad dog unfettered, and climb in. That was a damn nice bird BTW. We get to do the RJ and an ATR in the morning.
Wayne..I do not want to drag this thread off topic but I just have to ask you a question about the auto throttles on modern jets. I just could not live with the damn throttles going up and down themsleves. Do you just get used to it or what? In the little time I was training I always had a good grasp of the trottle. I could live with the other stuff the auto system does but the throttle to me is sacrosanct.
It takes some getting used to. On the early 757, they weren't there and seems to me, I don't remember exactly when, but on one of the full upgrades we had and on the newer models they built, they were there. That said, and it wasn't designed for standard use, but there was an overide but it kinda skewed all your other settings if you used it, on take off. We were always less than MTOW, but coming out of the house on 8 grand, I always wanted full power so most of the time mine didn't kick in until I was up and out and threw the AP on. We played with it for awhile but mostly just used it on top.It's nice on a long flight, but it can lead to a little boredom/complacency if you aren't careful. I always kept track of where things were at just in case something shot craps and all of a sudden you had your bird back in your lap. If you did that, as most pilots should, you weren't behind the 8ball if an upset did come along. It was probably one of the best things in the world for the airlines as far as fuel savings for the airlines though and most airlines are requiring it's use on takeoff. I just never did like seeing that runway end getting close and neither did the guys riding with
Thanks...does the modern yoke that is connected to the control surfaces give you the same "feel" that the old wire and pulley system did like on the 1950s designed 707?
The 757 was still standard. The FBW didn't com til later. They were experimenting with it on the 767 and made a full application on the 777. Never flown one but haven't hear any complaints. Main griping I have heard is getting used to that joystick on the AB. I have heard some 777 drivers that had the same concerns prior to checking out in one but if there is anything there, it was insignificant.
Thanks...the last airbus A320 I rode in had Recaro leather seats...I am sure they had the thing up to .9 on because they swithed off the pax speedo display. When we got to where we were going they put the thing into a spiral descent so as not to stray into former communist bloc airspace. There were about 15 pax in the whole plane and I got the impression we were walk on freight. I am not spilling any names here ahem..I loved it but not sure others would feel at home. No joke it felt like some kid had got hold the joystick of a computer flight simulator. Sure enough I got a glimpse of the flight deck and the crew was young, the senior was checking his cell phone for messages I noticed. His helper had already left..prolly in the closet vomiting...maybe.
lol.Sounds like a flight. I can remember one time long ago as we were getting ready to leave, there was bad wx approaching from our North and tower gave us 10 minutes or we would probably be under at least a 1 hour hold. Last person had just boarded. We started firing engines, I hit the PA and told all to sit down, buckle in, and hold on. We violated every ATC procedure known to man. Tower never really gave clearance, I just told 'em we were taxiing, and was half way down the taxiway before we actually got our slot. They gave me clearance. Gear doors weren't even closed good before we started a right hand bank. Made our turn, got out on top and well past all the wx. Sometimes you just gotta make a winnebago handle like a 'vette. The one I felt sorry for was a Braniff BAC 111 that came out right behind me and had to go right into all that mess going to Tulsa. I'll bet they had one bumpy ride.
Derg tell me..I guess these days they would water-board you yes? Haha..even the lawyers were reasonable human they are all fricken Neanderthal/Reptilian throw backs. WTF they expected the carriers to exactly do on 9-11 beats me. If anyone needs a sanction it is the government.
You are correct. No TSA.
TSA was created in knee-jerk response to the 9/11 attack.


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