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Saudi airline cancels $6B Boeing order in favor of Airbus. Who's next?

“If this plane doesn’t start flying again before Christmas, it could start to get very ugly for Boeing in terms of order cancellations,” one aviation expert said. ( More...

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chalet 6
I am a civil/mechanical engineer but not an aeronautical engineer. I would like to post a question which I am afraid I have a feeling that I already know the answer: if the FAA, NTSB, BEA and the rest of their counterpart organizations around the world decide that the MAX 8 is not a safe plane and that it is to be grounded for ever, could Boeing retrofit them or use important elements already manufactured and reused in the manufacturing of new 700/800 series not compromised with the darn MCAS system.
Gavin Waters 1
Boeing can and will fix the 737 MAX but its not just MCAS. It may take some hardware as well as software modifications. It may take longer than they've been saying. Approvals look to be more stringent than in the past. Meanwhile less old aircraft will get retired I guess and substitute aircraft will be used like with the engine issues on the 787. I don't think anyone can reliably say when the 737 MAX will be approved to fly again but it won't be back up in the air until the several issues that have now been found are tested and approved.
Geoff Stone 3
I suspect pilot training on simulators will be mandatory. This is something the marketing people wanted to avoid because of time and cost.
Although I'm a Boeing Fan , the 737Max 8 has certainly disrupted the Airline Industry . So if I was an Owner and waiting for a plane that hasn't been repaired and or Fault rectified I too would seek Airbus equivalent , as the delay also effects Profits . Time is Money .
Roy Corrales 3
Agree with you... while the other fellows continue complaining about the Boeing effect, this topic is entirely related to a sensitive $6Bn deal.
Geoff Stone 7
Perhaps Boeing should consider fitting the old engines on the planes and selling the aircraft off cheaply. That way the reputation of the 737 as a good workhorse would be maintained. Any airline with a fleet of 737 MAX is going to lose sales to competitors. That’s reality. How is Boeing going to compensate them? I can see the lawyers salivating at the prospects.

Was anyone interested in flying in a Comet with new windows fitted? A Titanic with more lifeboats?

It’s time for management to get a backbone other from KMart and make the hard decisions.
djames225 2
Not as simple as just swapping out engines..wing spars would need to be relocated for the older engine pylons which then they themselves would have to be fitted, plumbing and electrical redone etc etc
After following these Q&A with interest with airlines struggling , what will Southwest do with all those Aircraft if the deadline is not met .
Pete Templin 5
Airlines can only tolerate a decade of backlog so and demand will tilt the balance back in due time.
James Bruton 2
It is very sad how America's premier commercial airline manufacturer reputation and trust has fallen. In time they may regain some of their credibility but never the level it was before the 737Max fiasco. A major change in management and strategy is in order, including retiring the entire 737 fleet, including the name, and develop a new generation of aircraft, not a retrofit of an old model with new engines that don't fit. To me that is their only successful path.
DGR Rathborne 2
I have noticed 2 News items that caught my attention over the last few days . The 1st one was a comment that
if Boeing can not get the Max's back in the air before 2020 arrives , it may permanently damage Boeing Financially . Shortly after this American Airlines stated that it is further delaying the estimated , ( Hoped ) return of its' Max aircraft to Nov 2 2019 . Also i wonder , just how much maintenance will each aircraft require to get it into flying condition after sitting for so long ? It not like you just run a vacuum through the cabin . Can anybody tell me what each aircraft would require ? Thanks again ......DGR
DGR And I have the same interest ,as theirs a lot to start a plane Flat battery's who knows what bird's have nested in the engines and cavity's .I think to stop this whole situation would be Boeing to go back to basics get rid of new computer soft wear get plane up and running and cut your losses .
djames225 1
You both make great points. Unfortunately, with the MAX, they cannot just get rid of the software or they will have to get then completely certified, not grandfathered under other 737's
Frank Harvey 2
Its already almost mid-July. You're already selling your Winter and Spring schedules. It would be nice to know what a/c types and seat configurations (assignments) you'll be using. You want to know what additional crew qualification/certifications you are going to need, especially if more training and simulator time has to be scheduled. What gate slots are you going to be committing to pay for ? What are the fuel and any other out-station parts requirements (and any other mx). Are any special service carts and containers needed, even something as simple as Emergency Evacuation cards that no one looks at.
You might also want to be looking at provisional leases in case your grounded Maxes aren't usable.
Still no one has answered my question What happens to all those South west planes if Boeing doesn't make deadline by xmas . Abet theirs no refund .
djames225 2
That is something only Southwest and Boeing can answer. Seeing as Boeing just escorted their last built B737NG series out the door, who's to say what Southwest will do.
Alan Dahl 0
There are still a handful of NGs left to be built but they are military variants, not commercial.
Gavin Waters 1
I'm not expecting that the 737 MAX will be back in the air (or not) to a "deadline". That would be like Mr Muilenburg saying that the only thing preventing the 737 MAX from flying again is something political. I don't believe any authority is going to approve it back into service before everything necessary to ensure safety and conformance is actually fixed by Boeing. Its a very good thing that now the 737 MAX is under scrutiny they find all the deficiencies and Boeing remedy those so we don't have any more tragedies. Imagine the deadline set and the 737 MAX back in the air with faults followed by another crash. The consequences would be horrendous for Boeing, the authorities and the whole airline industry. No deadline please, only the full and proper fixing of all the issues. I would have thought even Mr Muilenburg would agree with that.
Geoff Stone 4
The marketing people created this nightmare by rushing a plane to market. A similar event occurred when Microsoft bought Nokia mobile phones. They spent USD7 billion trying to compete with Apple with their WIN10 phone. The apps developers didn’t develop their products for the new platform. MS eventually abandoned the MS WIN10 phone as the public didn’t buy it. Although it was a serious contender from a technology perspective. They reverted to Android phones.

Boeing will eventually bite the bullet and abandon the Max. They will survive and develop new aircraft.
The MAX737 could be compared to Titanic II. It won’t stand the pub test. God forbid if there was an unexplained crash after they fly again.
djames225 1
I hate to say this but with everything Boeing has on the line for the MAX as of right now, the jets it has already delivered, the support programs already in place, the aircraft built and sitting idle etc, if they pulled the plug, chances are very very good they would not economically survive.
For 1, not only would they have to reimburse any moneys already accepted for the jets, airlines will want restitution for the craft sitting and now having no craft at all. To write just that down alone, would be a staggering amt.

Worse off, if word got out Boeing was going to do this, I'm sure you would see a stampede of shareholders either running towards Chicago, or more than likely, running to their brokers.

And I do not agree about the marketing people...more like corporate HQ, potentially seeing their bottom line dropping against competition. They rushed it to market.
chalet 1
When Boeing finally got its act together with the 787 (or so they thought) they atarted assemblying them with a delay of 3-4 years and then a secong WHAM, they found out that there were serious structural deffects where the main spar meets the fuselage and also with the stabilators. How they solved it: the old fashioned way, beef up them damn elements. So they did but the ZFW grew by several tons reducing the guaranteed range and the affected airlines refused to take them. There were a total of 8 or 10 of them, some were sold to Middle East sheiks and other governments at really bargain-basin prices, and two or so went to Air museums. So are you telling me that a hell of a lot of museums around the world are salivating at the prospect of having one Max 8 for free.
Corporate ACCOUNTABILITY at Boeing. Name some names - and, no 'golden parachute(s).
Chris B 0
Already posted at least twice last week.
Jamar Jackson -2
It’s reputation is blown. And with the internet opinons and news travels much faster than decades ago when a DC-10 or Comet had design flaws.
Edward Bardes -1
That doesn't mean that there won't be any people at all who would be willing to fly on the MAX in the future.
Cansojr -2
You are right Jamar, bad news travels faster than good news on a rocket sled.
Cansojr -5
Most of these people live in Neverland so don't feel bad.
Klaus Frank 0
Since markting and sales people around the globe took over so many industries, that's what we need to deal with ... unready products pushed to the market, remember Win 98?

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

djames225 11
Flightaware did not "jump" on any "anti-Boeing bandwagon. Facts are facts and a member posted a squawk. This squawk is to do with "Time + Money". How long do you think these airlines will wait for a now much further delayed MAX re-entry??
dq...flightawre did not "jump" on any bandwagon..they merely do not police the "squawks"posted on here..flightaware is not a news outlet,but they do accept suggestions and complaints if a person has one to voice regarding content..
Cansojr -4
I am certainly not anti-Boeing. That is absolutely insane. The world economy would take a serious hit with jobs lost. I believe it could cause a depression. Boeing does so much in North America the pain would be felt everywhere. We have done enough punishing them NOW let's let the great Lady Fly again. Let's help this great scion of aviation gain that nobility again.
a1brainiac -8
So where's Trump on this issue? I thought he was going to bring jobs back to USA ?
Frank Farino 5
What a moronic comment.
Dwight Hartje -1
Tbh I saw this one coming. Suadia lording a ton of Airbus aircraft at the Paris Air Show was an indicator that some Boeing orders would be canceled. I do not thing this will snowball or anything like that as the news media and many other people just want Boeing to fail, which isn't going to happen for a while.l.

[This comment has been downvoted. Show anyway.]

Jim Myers 15
Listen dotard, even BOEING admitted that this is THEIR FAULT. That's neither left nor right, that's called the horse's mouth!
Cansojr 1
Thank goodness sanity prevails. Thank You.
Edward Bardes 2
At the very least, Boeing now has a spelled out list of requested actions before the MAX can take to the air again.


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